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Edited by xbroggiex: 7/6/2022 1:47:30 AM
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I think the way they did it with Duality is the way to do it. Since you got the grind for farming the deepsight fusion/MG but also you got the traditional roll farming for the other dungeon gear, if you let all weapons from the dungeon be craftable the mood changes from "Oh man I want to farm till I get the god roll of this or near enough what I want" to "Oh, this drop ain't deepsighted... deleted!". That is also the universal problem Bungie has set themselves up for with weapon crafting, which I think was a huge mistake to implement in its current form honestly. But that also gets me onto Raid weapons which I believe should also not be craftable... except the Adept versions which would incentivise playing the Master mode of the raid to obtain and would truly reward those who have "mastered" the raid so to speak.
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  • As someone who's gotten all the adept raid weapons in Vow, I use none of them and none of the folks I played with do either. Can't beat those enhanced perks and few people actually cared. Don't get me wrong, super happy with my God rolled Lubrae's Ruin adept, but I never use it.

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  • Its why I think Adepts should be the craftable ones. It incentivises you to play the hardest version of the raid to be able to attain the best possible version of a raid weapon. Right now there is no reason to go for adepts over crafted rolls and you only get them anyway because the title requires master mode challenges.

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  • Edited by AbsolutZeroGI: 7/7/2022 2:45:11 AM
    [quote]Its why I think Adepts should be the craftable ones. It incentivises you to play the hardest version of the raid to be able to attain the best possible version of a raid weapon. Right now there is no reason to go for adepts over crafted rolls and you only get them anyway because the title requires master mode challenges.[/quote] Except the hardest version of the raid isn't enjoyable, which means people don't do it. Seriously, only about 50k runs of master have ever been completed and it's run less than 1000 times a week, by far the least of any active raid. Adepts right now serve as trophies, which is fine tbh. I'd like Adepts to be worth more too, but doing master Vow 30ish times and having to do a challenge each time just to get them crafted would literally drive me away from the game forever. It's a video game, not a measuring contest. It has to be fun at least sometimes or everyone stops playing it.

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  • Edited by xbroggiex: 7/7/2022 5:40:54 PM
    I think Bungie needs to strike a balance with Master raid content and weapon crafting in particular. Maybe they could adjust how adepts are dropped. So for instance they'd drop per encounter alongside normal drops on top of that like Prestige mode did originally, but if you wanted to get the crafted version of the Adept weapons which would be the only craftable raid weapons you'd have to do the challenges which would unlock certain patterns. For example, doing the Swift Destruction challenge would grant the pattern for Submission (Adept) and doing the Base Information challenges grants the pattern for Cataclysmic (Adept). I think you should be able to gain the patterns relatively quickly granted you are doing the hardest challenges in a raid. As of this moment Adepts have literally no value as weapons compared to their normal crafted counterparts which only have 1 less point in each stat and also have access to enhanced perks. Adept mods are negligible and only really matter for PvP if you run a +10 range mod or something and Adept Big Ones isn't that important when you don't often use heavy on orange bar enemies maybe for primaries like Submission but you wouldn't really be shooting bosses with it anyway unless you literally had no ammo.

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  • [quote]I think Bungie needs to strike a balance with Master raid content and weapon crafting in particular. Maybe they could adjust how adepts are dropped. So for instance they'd drop per encounter alongside normal drops on top of that like Prestige mode did originally, but if you wanted to get the crafted version of the Adept weapons which would be the only craftable raid weapons you'd have to do the challenges which would unlock certain patterns. For example, doing the Swift Destruction challenge would grant the pattern for Submission (Adept) and doing the Base Information challenges grants the pattern for Cataclysmic (Adept). I think you should be able to gain the patterns relatively quickly granted you are doing the hardest challenges in a raid. As of this moment Adepts have literally no value as weapons compared to their normal crafted counterparts which only have 1 less point in each stat and also have access to enhanced perks. Adept mods are negligible and only really matter for PvP if you run a +10 range mod or something and Adept Big Ones isn't that important when you don't often use heavy on orange bar enemies maybe for primaries like Submission but you wouldn't really be shooting bosses with it anyway unless you literally had no ammo.[/quote] Why do Adepts need to have value though? Like, why do they have to be the best? The GM sniper this week sucks even when it's adept. Sometimes it's okay to have weapons as trophies and not as meta loot. Between the low interest and the fact that 75% of LFGs for it are checkpoint farmers who don't actually know how to play the raid well, it would be miserable going back into that master raid anymore times than necessary for the seal, and even then, I've already sworn off anymore raid seals while they require master raid runs. They're not fun, nobody wants to do them, and most of the people who do are looking for carries. There are just better ways to spend time. Plus, if none of that convinced you, consider the following. Stormchaser is better than Cataclysmic, so you're not using Cataclysmic anyway. Calus Minitool is the current SMG meta, etc. The only weapon with long term value is the glaive, and that's only because it's the only legendary solar glaive for now. Even if you crafted Adepts, you'd hardly ever use them anyway.

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  • [quote][quote]I think Bungie needs to strike a balance with Master raid content and weapon crafting in particular. Maybe they could adjust how adepts are dropped. So for instance they'd drop per encounter alongside normal drops on top of that like Prestige mode did originally, but if you wanted to get the crafted version of the Adept weapons which would be the only craftable raid weapons you'd have to do the challenges which would unlock certain patterns. For example, doing the Swift Destruction challenge would grant the pattern for Submission (Adept) and doing the Base Information challenges grants the pattern for Cataclysmic (Adept). I think you should be able to gain the patterns relatively quickly granted you are doing the hardest challenges in a raid. As of this moment Adepts have literally no value as weapons compared to their normal crafted counterparts which only have 1 less point in each stat and also have access to enhanced perks. Adept mods are negligible and only really matter for PvP if you run a +10 range mod or something and Adept Big Ones isn't that important when you don't often use heavy on orange bar enemies maybe for primaries like Submission but you wouldn't really be shooting bosses with it anyway unless you literally had no ammo.[/quote] Why do Adepts need to have value though? Like, why do they have to be the best? The GM sniper this week sucks even when it's adept. Sometimes it's okay to have weapons as trophies and not as meta loot. Between the low interest and the fact that 75% of LFGs for it are checkpoint farmers who don't actually know how to play the raid well, it would be miserable going back into that master raid anymore times than necessary for the seal, and even then, I've already sworn off anymore raid seals while they require master raid runs. They're not fun, nobody wants to do them, and most of the people who do are looking for carries. There are just better ways to spend time. Plus, if none of that convinced you, consider the following. Stormchaser is better than Cataclysmic, so you're not using Cataclysmic anyway. Calus Minitool is the current SMG meta, etc. The only weapon with long term value is the glaive, and that's only because it's the only legendary solar glaive for now. Even if you crafted Adepts, you'd hardly ever use them anyway.[/quote] Nobody wants to do it because it sucks. I was able to find Prestige Leviathan LFGs all the time despite having no appreciable loot pool. People will do stuff when it's fun. Loot helps motivate, but if that's the only motivator, then it dries up quick because meta shifts and it's not worth the effort. There is clearly a lack of interest here and Proving Grounds has other options for weapons anyway.

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  • [quote]Why do Adepts need to have value though? Like, why do they have to be the best? The GM sniper this week sucks even when it's adept. Sometimes it's okay to have weapons as trophies and not as meta loot.[/quote] That would be fine if not for all adepts being worthless to crafted versions. By the time you actually get a decent roll of an adept weapon you could've just farmed 5 deepsights in normal mode and gotten the level required to get the enhanced perks you want. [quote]Between the low interest and the fact that 75% of LFGs for it are checkpoint farmers who don't actually know how to play the raid well, it would be miserable going back into that master raid anymore times than necessary for the seal, and even then, I've already sworn off anymore raid seals while they require master raid runs[/quote] And why does it have low interest? Because the loot has no value over normal mode crafted versions. If Master mode was the only place to get craftable raid weapons the interest would get greatly increased. Doing the raid on master normally is a cakewalk especially now with the 40% DR at Res T10. Doing the challenges is what does make it challenging but that's why the greatest of the rewards should come from the greatest of that activities challenges. [quote]They're not fun, nobody wants to do them, and most of the people who do are looking for carries. There are just better ways to spend time.[/quote] You don't find them fun. You could also just get like minded players to actually run the content. [quote]Stormchaser is better than Cataclysmic, so you're not using Cataclysmic anyway. Calus Minitool is the current SMG meta, etc. The only weapon with long term value is the glaive, and that's only because it's the only legendary solar glaive for now.[/quote] Except in Solar burn where I'd take a Cataclysmic over Stormchaser like I did for the Proving Grounds GM, that and dependant on the enemy hitting a singular shot is easier than three shots in a burst. Calus Mini-tool just synergises well with Solar so it will naturally be used this was the same with Funnelweb with Void. Submission however does have a place in a Fusion nade build on warlocks due to the ability to get Overflow. [quote]Even if you crafted Adepts, you'd hardly ever use them anyway.[/quote] If they were the only way to have a craftable raid weapon I'd use them a lot.

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