But if the whiny sweats don't have lower tier players served to them, they won't buy witch queen and make memes on reddit lol
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I don't see sweay people filling the forums up every day complaining about getting stomped in Trials tho...
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Edited by AbsolutZeroGI: 11/2/2021 6:32:30 PMGo back to the days when SBMM was a thing and that's ALL they did. "I want to relax in PvP, I have to try every game! I shouldn't have to try every game!" And the casuals loved it cuz they actually got to win a few games. Dozens of them every week until Bungo got rid of sbmm. The sweats got what they want, an endless supply of new lights to pad their fake stats and fake accolades. Flawless is am RNG achievement, not a skill one. That's how CBMM works. Look at my trials stats. I'm a top 50% player (above average) in every metric except wins, where I am bottom 25%. The sweats get what they want, and they're awful people who shouldn't.
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You're not what's concidered an above average player. 1 kd + is what's concidered an above average trials player. Yours is 0.76. I'm a top 13% player in trials (kd-wise) and probably belong in the above average bracket. I'm certainly not higher...
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Edited by AbsolutZeroGI: 11/3/2021 7:06:38 PM[quote]You're not what's concidered an above average player. 1 kd + is what's concidered an above average trials player. Yours is 0.76. I'm a top 13% player in trials (kd-wise) and probably belong in the above average bracket. I'm certainly not higher...[/quote] No, average is 50th percentile. That means half the player base does worse and half the player base does better. This community being terrible at math and statistics don't change what the word "average" means. That's a non subjective term with a measurable solution. I am better than the 50th percentile, that makes me statistically above average. The problem is trials being such an incredible toxic game mode played by such incredibly toxic people that the average is below what people would expect the average to be. If SBMM we're implemented and the developers stopped letting high tier players stomp on noobs all day, the average would be higher and closer to what we would expect. But this is CBMM. People get wrecked and quit. That drives the average down. 0.67KD-ish (guesstimate, as I am 0.78 and we'll into the higher 40th percentile range) is average for trials. That's facts man, can't change it cuz you don't like it.
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When you say that you are above average at pvp, you should compare yourself with players that play pvp on a regular basis. You have less than 800 games played in total over 4 years. There nothing wrong with that, but you're not a pvp player. This is not me being toxic, it's just speaking the truth. You are of course entitled to your opinion, but I believe that branding yourself as above average at pvp is misleading at best.
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Edited by AbsolutZeroGI: 11/3/2021 8:39:05 PM[quote]When you say that you are above average at pvp, you should compare yourself with players that play pvp on a regular basis. You have less than 800 games played in total over 4 years. There nothing wrong with that, but you're not a pvp player. This is not me being toxic, it's just speaking the truth. You are of course entitled to your opinion, but I believe that branding yourself as above average at pvp is misleading at best.[/quote] Oh I'm not a PvP player. This is a PvE game and the focus is PvE. People who spend $100+ every year on this game to play what amounts to a time waster game mode are insane to me. It's no less ridiculous than when anyone buys a whole -blam!- game and only plays one mode. But. I have well over 1000 hours into the game, over a dozen seals unlocked (14 I think?), and despite what people might say, those skills are transferrable. I can aim and shoot and I understand how builds and meta works. Thing is, the idea that the community segregates itself between "PvP players and non PvP players" in a discussion like this but [b][i]isn't willing to segregate those same players in the actual game[/i][/b] is a real problem. If PvP players want to be considered separate from everyone else, that's fine with me, but as long as I load into PvP, I'm playing against those people, so my stats are just as valid as anyone else's. As long as day 1 new lights are thrown in with them, their stats are counted as well. Let me phrase it another way. If you believe that my stats are less valid because I don't play PvP a lot, why are the stats of PvP sweats more valid when their totals are padded by facing people even less experienced than I am literally every day? There is no indication of skill in this game, so I don't believe anyone's stats are any less valid than anyone else's. I could easily boost myself into the top 25% my stacking up and bullying solo players in quick play all day. I simply choose not to.
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There's a lot to unravel here, so I hope I don't miss any of your points😉 It's not a pve game, it's both. Bungie has stated as much several times, both pve and pvp has been a staple since vanilla d1 and we've had endgame activities for both just as long. Some people play only pve, some only pvp and some (like me) enjoy both. I never said that you are a bad player by any means. You can be a great pve player for all I know, and that is in no way inferior to being a great pvp player. It's just different. The skills have some cross-over, but not as much as you would think. Pvp does put different demands on a player when it comes to movement, tactics, situational awerness etc. Same as pve puts different demands on a player. I think beeing mechanically sound is a good foundation to begin improving in both arenas, no more no less. I'm not trying to invalidate your stats at all, they are what they are. Same as mine. I don't care about stats. I also don't share the view that destiny players should be concidered segregated based on what gamemodes they prefer to play. I welcome anyone that want to play into pvp, same as I do pve. What I don't want is for certain rewards to be watered down. There should be some things in this game that good players can chase and show off, that not everyone can get. I'm not suggesting strong weapons (nf, recluse, MT, etc) but cosmetics and seals. I do consider adept/timelost weapons to be cosmetics. My fear is that trials will be like comp is now. The unbroken title was once something that represented a certain level off skill, but now it's a complete joke. I'm typing from my phone, so I probably failed to adresse some of your points😂
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[quote]There's a lot to unravel here, so I hope I don't miss any of your points😉 It's not a pve game, it's both. Bungie has stated as much several times, both pve and pvp has been a staple since vanilla d1 and we've had endgame activities for both just as long. Some people play only pve, some only pvp and some (like me) enjoy both. I never said that you are a bad player by any means. You can be a great pve player for all I know, and that is in no way inferior to being a great pvp player. It's just different. The skills have some cross-over, but not as much as you would think. Pvp does put different demands on a player when it comes to movement, tactics, situational awerness etc. Same as pve puts different demands on a player. I think beeing mechanically sound is a good foundation to begin improving in both arenas, no more no less. I'm not trying to invalidate your stats at all, they are what they are. Same as mine. I don't care about stats. I also don't share the view that destiny players should be concidered segregated based on what gamemodes they prefer to play. I welcome anyone that want to play into pvp, same as I do pve. What I don't want is for certain rewards to be watered down. There should be some things in this game that good players can chase and show off, that not everyone can get. I'm not suggesting strong weapons (nf, recluse, MT, etc) but cosmetics and seals. I do consider adept/timelost weapons to be cosmetics. My fear is that trials will be like comp is now. The unbroken title was once something that represented a certain level off skill, but now it's a complete joke. I'm typing from my phone, so I probably failed to adresse some of your points😂[/quote] That's why I've been quoting lol, cuz I'm also responding on a phone and I can read your response while I respond. I think the disconnect here is the spirit or intention of the activity. PvP is putting humans against other humans. Losing sucks and is especially demoralizing when it happens all the time and by large margins. It makes people feel unhappy. By letting sweats farm new lights, it makes the new lights unhappy and unhappy players leave. That's how we get situations like stagnant player base numbers, population drops after PvE content dries up for the season, or trials being down to 50k players weekly before the revamp (and it's lost about 1/3 of it's population since the first week of the revamp). PvE, by contrast, is cooperative. When one player succeeds, everybody succeeds, and it makes everyone happy. Doesn't matter who's there, cuz every human in the activity is going for the same outcome together. The point I'm trying to make is that if a player loses 10 straight games, they are less unhappy if those games are reasonably close versus the way things are now, where they're getting wrecked 0-5 in trials or mercy'd in quick play. That's why I keep referencing stats. The stats show an outsized percentage of players who get stomped and quit versus ones who stay and eventually become competitive. In a game that relies on population for its PvP (like all PvP games), the notion that players wouldn't want a system that helps progress new players so they stick around instead of hazing them with losses so significant that the average KD in this game is well under 1.0 is crazy to me.
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[quote][quote]There's a lot to unravel here, so I hope I don't miss any of your points😉 It's not a pve game, it's both. Bungie has stated as much several times, both pve and pvp has been a staple since vanilla d1 and we've had endgame activities for both just as long. Some people play only pve, some only pvp and some (like me) enjoy both. I never said that you are a bad player by any means. You can be a great pve player for all I know, and that is in no way inferior to being a great pvp player. It's just different. The skills have some cross-over, but not as much as you would think. Pvp does put different demands on a player when it comes to movement, tactics, situational awerness etc. Same as pve puts different demands on a player. I think beeing mechanically sound is a good foundation to begin improving in both arenas, no more no less. I'm not trying to invalidate your stats at all, they are what they are. Same as mine. I don't care about stats. I also don't share the view that destiny players should be concidered segregated based on what gamemodes they prefer to play. I welcome anyone that want to play into pvp, same as I do pve. What I don't want is for certain rewards to be watered down. There should be some things in this game that good players can chase and show off, that not everyone can get. I'm not suggesting strong weapons (nf, recluse, MT, etc) but cosmetics and seals. I do consider adept/timelost weapons to be cosmetics. My fear is that trials will be like comp is now. The unbroken title was once something that represented a certain level off skill, but now it's a complete joke. I'm typing from my phone, so I probably failed to adresse some of your points😂[/quote] That's why I've been quoting lol, cuz I'm also responding on a phone and I can read your response while I respond. I think the disconnect here is the spirit or intention of the activity. PvP is putting humans against other humans. Losing sucks and is especially demoralizing when it happens all the time and by large margins. It makes people feel unhappy. By letting sweats farm new lights, it makes the new lights unhappy and unhappy players leave. That's how we get situations like stagnant player base numbers, population drops after PvE content dries up for the season, or trials being down to 50k players weekly before the revamp (and it's lost about 1/3 of it's population since the first week of the revamp). PvE, by contrast, is cooperative. When one player succeeds, everybody succeeds, and it makes everyone happy. Doesn't matter who's there, cuz every human in the activity is going for the same outcome together. The point I'm trying to make is that if a player loses 10 straight games, they are less unhappy if those games are reasonably close versus the way things are now, where they're getting wrecked 0-5 in trials or mercy'd in quick play. That's why I keep referencing stats. The stats show an outsized percentage of players who get stomped and quit versus ones who stay and eventually become competitive. In a game that relies on population for its PvP (like all PvP games), the notion that players wouldn't want a system that helps progress new players so they stick around instead of hazing them with losses so significant that the average KD in this game is well under 1.0 is crazy to me.[/quote] I believe that the main reason a lot of people stayed away from trials is that it didn't reward people for the time they put in, if they aren't able to string together wins It was way worse before, but I still fell like losses should be more rewarding. As for the reduction og players the last 6 weeks, it's to be expected. The people that don't particularly like pvp have gotten their loot, and left. You're never gonna be able to keep those player anyways. Inhate gambit, and I will only play it for desirable loot. As soon as I get the gun I want with a somewhat acceptable roll, I'm out. My win/loss-ratio doesn't matter at all, because I don't enjoy the gamemode. New light players can't play trials btw, as owning the latest expantion is now required to play. I also don't think that endgame in any form should be catered for brand new players. Endgame should be something that they can aspire to, at some point, be able to do. You remember d2 y1, where the game was giving out everything to everyone with next to no effort. It wasn't recieved very well by the players. Not saying that was the only problem as there mostcertainly were other issues as well, but it was absolutly one of them.
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[quote][quote][quote]There's a lot to unravel here, so I hope I don't miss any of your points😉 It's not a pve game, it's both. Bungie has stated as much several times, both pve and pvp has been a staple since vanilla d1 and we've had endgame activities for both just as long. Some people play only pve, some only pvp and some (like me) enjoy both. I never said that you are a bad player by any means. You can be a great pve player for all I know, and that is in no way inferior to being a great pvp player. It's just different. The skills have some cross-over, but not as much as you would think. Pvp does put different demands on a player when it comes to movement, tactics, situational awerness etc. Same as pve puts different demands on a player. I think beeing mechanically sound is a good foundation to begin improving in both arenas, no more no less. I'm not trying to invalidate your stats at all, they are what they are. Same as mine. I don't care about stats. I also don't share the view that destiny players should be concidered segregated based on what gamemodes they prefer to play. I welcome anyone that want to play into pvp, same as I do pve. What I don't want is for certain rewards to be watered down. There should be some things in this game that good players can chase and show off, that not everyone can get. I'm not suggesting strong weapons (nf, recluse, MT, etc) but cosmetics and seals. I do consider adept/timelost weapons to be cosmetics. My fear is that trials will be like comp is now. The unbroken title was once something that represented a certain level off skill, but now it's a complete joke. I'm typing from my phone, so I probably failed to adresse some of your points😂[/quote] That's why I've been quoting lol, cuz I'm also responding on a phone and I can read your response while I respond. I think the disconnect here is the spirit or intention of the activity. PvP is putting humans against other humans. Losing sucks and is especially demoralizing when it happens all the time and by large margins. It makes people feel unhappy. By letting sweats farm new lights, it makes the new lights unhappy and unhappy players leave. That's how we get situations like stagnant player base numbers, population drops after PvE content dries up for the season, or trials being down to 50k players weekly before the revamp (and it's lost about 1/3 of it's population since the first week of the revamp). PvE, by contrast, is cooperative. When one player succeeds, everybody succeeds, and it makes everyone happy. Doesn't matter who's there, cuz every human in the activity is going for the same outcome together. The point I'm trying to make is that if a player loses 10 straight games, they are less unhappy if those games are reasonably close versus the way things are now, where they're getting wrecked 0-5 in trials or mercy'd in quick play. That's why I keep referencing stats. The stats show an outsized percentage of players who get stomped and quit versus ones who stay and eventually become competitive. In a game that relies on population for its PvP (like all PvP games), the notion that players wouldn't want a system that helps progress new players so they stick around instead of hazing them with losses so significant that the average KD in this game is well under 1.0 is crazy to me.[/quote] I believe that the main reason a lot of people stayed away from trials is that it didn't reward people for the time they put in, if they aren't able to string together wins It was way worse before, but I still fell like losses should be more rewarding. As for the reduction og players the last 6 weeks, it's to be expected. The people that don't particularly like pvp have gotten their loot, and left. You're never gonna be able to keep those player anyways. Inhate gambit, and I will only play it for desirable loot. As soon as I get the gun I want with a somewhat acceptable roll, I'm out. My win/loss-ratio doesn't matter at all, because I don't enjoy the gamemode. New light players can't play trials btw, as owning the latest expantion is now required to play. I also don't think that endgame in any form should be catered for brand new players. Endgame should be something that they can aspire to, at some point, be able to do. You remember d2 y1, where the game was giving out everything to everyone with next to no effort. It wasn't recieved very well by the players. Not saying that was the only problem as there mostcertainly were other issues as well, but it was absolutly one of them.[/quote] Oh it's simpler than that. The avg KD in trials is somewhere around 0.67. People don't like having their salads tossed by a wood chipper. They go in, get wrecked, and then leave, never to come back. Sweats face each other when the casuals are all gone and keep the average down, new players go in, get stomped, and then drive the average down even further. When people don't play a thing, it's because it's not fun. Trials has good loot so that's not the problem. Problem must be in the gameplay and the KD average tells a pretty simple but powerful story. People don't want to pay to be some sweat's free 4th flawless lol.
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You seem upset. You have problems in PvP?
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Edited by AbsolutZeroGI: 11/2/2021 6:47:11 PMI don't like playing video games with people who act like that and that line was parroted so many times that even typing it irritates me. Sweats demand that they play noobs all the time so they can "relax". But noobs don't get to play against anyone to "relax". They always have to try as hard as possible. Thus, this game's most experienced players demand that new players play a much different, much less pleasant game. To top it off, it's a game that sweats whined about playing themselves. It's the opposite of a support system and it's gross to look at. If this game's top 10% quit PvP, PvP would be infinitely better than it is now, and that shouldn't be true. It's a system that benefits experienced players exclusively and they aren't requires to play the game the same way as everybody else. As for me, I play PvP when someone in my clan needs a 3rd/6th, but I don't main it and I don't care about rewards or "going flawless". It's RNG anyway and I don't feel like getting fed to "PvP all day sweat stacks" until the game feels like giving me 7 consecutive games where I can be competitive. Again, look at my trials stats. Top 50% in every metric, bottom 25% in wins. PvP is screwed up.
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Edited by CookieNiki: 11/3/2021 7:29:14 PM[quote]Sweats demand that they play noobs all the time so they can "relax". But noobs don't get to play against anyone to "relax". They always have to try as hard as possible.[/quote] Nailed it!
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There are people that can "just relax" while breezing through a raid as well. I can't. Haven't put the time in to get that good at raiding. I'm not demanding that their raids are made harder, while mine are made easier because of that. I accept that I have to invest more time if I want to be able to "just relax" while raiding. Some people are at such a low level, that they need to practice the basics in strikes for a while, before even attempting a single raid encounter (unless they're beeing carried). There's just not anything wrong with that...
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There are people that can "just relax" while breezing through a raid as well. I can't. Haven't put the time in to get that good at raiding. I'm not demanding that their raids are made harder, while mine are made easier because of that. I accept that I have to invest more time if I want to be able to "just relax" while raiding. Some people are at such a low level, that they need to practice the basics in strikes for a while, before even attempting a single raid encounter (unless they're beeing carried). There's just not anything wrong with that...[/quote] PvP is a competitive mode against other guardians. It is not the same as guardians working together against AI bad guys. One is cooperative. The other is competitive. One should not be relaxing in a competitive space. That's not how competitive game modes work. They should be competing. The word "competitive" comes from the word "compete", not the word "relax". Cooperative game modes can become relaxing once the guardians doing it have attained a sufficient level of competence. The AI opponent is the same all the time, so eventually a player grows up to the challenge and then surpasses it. They are two completely different concepts. Competitive game modes aren't relaxing. That is not what they were designed or built for.
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Competative does not mean that at all. You're maybe thinking of ranked? There are plenty of competetive settings where one part can relax because of higher skill.
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It's player versus player in a mode where there is a winner and a loser. That is a competition. People stack up and use the game meta to get the best possible KD and win%, even in quick play. That's playing competitively. Trials only grants the best loot if you win, which is rewarding players for competing. Unbroken seal requires multiple rank resets over multiple seasons, implying consistent competitiveness over a long period of time. Bungo says that PvP isn't competitive. But the community decided that it was and acts like it is everyday. Nothing you or I can do about that except acknowledge it.
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You didn't adress my point though. The fact that it's a competetive mode does not automaticly mean that one can not have relaxing games if your skill is higher than your opponents. SBMM is kinda the opposite of competetive. Ok no competetive setting that I know off will you be shielded from higher skilled opposition. Now you do have sports with different brackets, but they also have different rewards for the brackets. If you're proposing different rewards, then you can make an argument for some sort of sbmm in trials. If everyone is competing for the same stuff, then no.
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Edited by AbsolutZeroGI: 11/3/2021 8:50:03 PM[quote]You didn't adress my point though. The fact that it's a competetive mode does not automaticly mean that one can not have relaxing games if your skill is higher than your opponents. SBMM is kinda the opposite of competetive. Ok no competetive setting that I know off will you be shielded from higher skilled opposition. Now you do have sports with different brackets, but they also have different rewards for the brackets. If you're proposing different rewards, then you can make an argument for some sort of sbmm in trials. If everyone is competing for the same stuff, then no.[/quote] I agree with he brackets thing and I'm sad D2 doesn't use them. Tom Brady isn't one of the best QBs all time because he stomped on a bunch of overweight pickup players who only play football 14 times a year. We call Tom Brady one of the GOATs because he beats elite level teams in the Super Bowl every other year. Same premise here. The idea of SBMM is to put you in a bracket with other players, some slightly better and some slightly worse. You graduate from that bracket to the next bracket. That's how it's supposed to work. When you reach your potential, every game should be tough but winnable. That's how a properly optimized PvP experience should be. Tough but winnable every game. In D2, in EVERY game mode, matchmaking is random. You can find screenshots all over the forum of low tier players with 0 flawless runs facing high tier players with 40 flawless runs. The way things are, the 40 flawless team got to relax and take a free win. The low tier player literally never experiences that. Ever. Low tier player quits, skill gap gets larger. At this point, I don't even know how many actually skilled players are left and how many just bully low enf players and pad stats. However, as a premise, PvP is inherently supposed to be competitive. We are facing off against each other to see who wins. We aren't playing together. That's what a competition is.
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I'm not that familiar with US sports, but I would argue that the guys probably didn't stand to get a super bowl trophy (or something) if they win their pick-up game. Tom Brody could (did?) win that trophy. The good players aren't mad because they have to play better players. They're mad because bad players get the same prizes for a lot less effort. I've heard people claim that the lesser players work just as hard for it bacuse their level of skill is lower, which is absurd. That would be like saying that the guys in the pick-up game should get a super bowl trophy because they worked just as hard as Tom Brady.
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[quote]I'm not that familiar with US sports, but I would argue that the guys probably didn't stand to get a super bowl trophy (or something) if they win their pick-up game. Tom Brody could (did?) win that trophy. The good players aren't mad because they have to play better players. They're mad because bad players get the same prizes for a lot less effort. I've heard people claim that the lesser players work just as hard for it bacuse their level of skill is lower, which is absurd. That would be like saying that the guys in the pick-up game should get a super bowl trophy because they worked just as hard as Tom Brady.[/quote] Ah sorry, didn't know. Tom Brady has won something like 8 or 9 championships in the last 20 years, including one last year at age 44. Bad players don't get adept weapons. Good players use adept weapons to keep bad players form getting adept weapons. If this community actually cares about being good, then it shouldn't matter who gets what. But that's the disconnect eh? The good PvP players don't want to face other good PvP players, they want the best loot, they want exclusivity on that loot, they use that loot to keep other players from getting that loot, and then they want to be considered good. Maybe they'd be less good if everyone was on an even playing field. This is why PvE players hate PvP grinds for weapons. The PvP sweats get it like day 1 and then the rest of us have to farm ours while being farmed by players who already have theirs and those players didn't have to do that. The first people to get adept trials smg didn't have to play against people with the adept trials smg to get it, why is it bad that other players don't also?
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Edited by Nurz3: 11/3/2021 11:12:44 PM[quote][quote]I'm not that familiar with US sports, but I would argue that the guys probably didn't stand to get a super bowl trophy (or something) if they win their pick-up game. Tom Brody could (did?) win that trophy. The good players aren't mad because they have to play better players. They're mad because bad players get the same prizes for a lot less effort. I've heard people claim that the lesser players work just as hard for it bacuse their level of skill is lower, which is absurd. That would be like saying that the guys in the pick-up game should get a super bowl trophy because they worked just as hard as Tom Brady.[/quote] Ah sorry, didn't know. Tom Brady has won something like 8 or 9 championships in the last 20 years, including one last year at age 44. Bad players don't get adept weapons. Good players use adept weapons to keep bad players form getting adept weapons. If this community actually cares about being good, then it shouldn't matter who gets what. But that's the disconnect eh? The good PvP players don't want to face other good PvP players, they want the best loot, they want exclusivity on that loot, they use that loot to keep other players from getting that loot, and then they want to be considered good. Maybe they'd be less good if everyone was on an even playing field. This is why PvE players hate PvP grinds for weapons. The PvP sweats get it like day 1 and then the rest of us have to farm ours while being farmed by players who already have theirs and those players didn't have to do that. The first people to get adept trials smg didn't have to play against people with the adept trials smg to get it, why is it bad that other players don't also?[/quote] When it comes to the og ritual weapons, I agree. Putting extremely strong weapons behind a skill wall is a really bad idea. Adept/timelost weapons is not that. They get a 2+ to every stat when masterworked, and access to a det more non gamechanging mods. Do you really believe that they make a difference in duels? So many people make the argument that they lose to another player because he/she has an adept weapon and they don't. It's like nope, you lost the duel because they have the skill to obtain the adept weapon (trials) and you (Not you om particular) don't. They're trophy guns, nothing more. Previous season that argument was stronger because trials weapons in general was a lot harder to get. Now everyone can get all the guns. Even back then the argument wasn't very strong because you had comparable guns in every category that was obtainable from other sources exept for the messenger. An other point is that good pvp players don't want to face other good players. That's absurd bro. I've logged over 2100 matches in trials since it re-launched, and excluding this season it was been sweaty on a level you probably can't even imagìne. This season is a walk in the park compared to what it has been. I am not afraid to play against teams that are equal to me, or better. I have gone flawless 50 times. That might sound like a lot to some, but it also mean that I have played 1750 games that in the end have not led to a flawless run. Imagine if Bungie all of a sudden said that the bad pve players now can get adept weapons from doing 1290 nightfalls, while the good players still has to run GM's for it. It would be a slap in the face for people that have put in the time to get good enough to run GM's. Same argument applies btw. Why is it so bad that everyone else gets it? Thanx for the tip about using quote btw. That made it a lot easier😉
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[quote][quote][quote]I'm not that familiar with US sports, but I would argue that the guys probably didn't stand to get a super bowl trophy (or something) if they win their pick-up game. Tom Brody could (did?) win that trophy. The good players aren't mad because they have to play better players. They're mad because bad players get the same prizes for a lot less effort. I've heard people claim that the lesser players work just as hard for it bacuse their level of skill is lower, which is absurd. That would be like saying that the guys in the pick-up game should get a super bowl trophy because they worked just as hard as Tom Brady.[/quote] Ah sorry, didn't know. Tom Brady has won something like 8 or 9 championships in the last 20 years, including one last year at age 44. Bad players don't get adept weapons. Good players use adept weapons to keep bad players form getting adept weapons. If this community actually cares about being good, then it shouldn't matter who gets what. But that's the disconnect eh? The good PvP players don't want to face other good PvP players, they want the best loot, they want exclusivity on that loot, they use that loot to keep other players from getting that loot, and then they want to be considered good. Maybe they'd be less good if everyone was on an even playing field. This is why PvE players hate PvP grinds for weapons. The PvP sweats get it like day 1 and then the rest of us have to farm ours while being farmed by players who already have theirs and those players didn't have to do that. The first people to get adept trials smg didn't have to play against people with the adept trials smg to get it, why is it bad that other players don't also?[/quote] When it comes to the og ritual weapons, I agree. Putting extremely strong weapons behind a skill wall is a really bad idea. Adept/timelost weapons is not that. They get a 2+ to every stat when masterworked, and access to a det more non gamechanging mods. Do you really believe that they make a difference in duels? So many people make the argument that they lose to another player because he/she has an adept weapon and they don't. It's like nope, you lost the duel because they have the skill to obtain the adept weapon (trials) and you (Not you om particular) don't. They're trophy guns, nothing more. Previous season that argument was stronger because trials weapons in general was a lot harder to get. Now everyone can get all the guns. Even back then the argument wasn't very strong because you had comparable guns in every category that was obtainable from other sources exept for the messenger. An other point is that good pvp players don't want to face other good players. That's absurd bro. I've logged over 2100 matches in trials since it re-launched, and excluding this season it was been sweaty on a level you probably can't even imagìne. This season is a walk in the park compared to what it has been. I am not afraid to play against teams that are equal to me, or better. I have gone flawless 50 times. That might sound like a lot to some, but it also mean that I have played 1750 games that in the end have not led to a flawless run. Imagine if Bungie all of a sudden said that the bad pve players now can get adept weapons from doing 1290 nightfalls, while the good players still has to run GM's for it. It would be a slap in the face for people that have put in the time to get good enough to run GM's. Same argument applies btw. Why is it so bad that everyone else gets it? Thanx for the tip about using quote btw. That made it a lot easier😉[/quote] Messenger is one of the most powerful PvP guns right now and adept messenger is better in almost every way. Sure it's slight but in a game where you can kill someone before their slow ping realizes it and people are playing up to 120hz on console and 240hz on PC, every frame counts. I've never gone flawless. I always face teams that are far below my experience level for a round or two, and then get wrecked by 3 stack sweats for 9 or 10 games. Using the same weapons in the same spots with the same cheesy abilities to get them out of trouble. Gotta love watching 5 hunters shatterdive each other every match while I sit in a rift half a mile away because my special ability doesn't even let me move. Anyway, the community has spoken pretty openly about wanting to "relax" in PvP, which means they don't want to play against one another. That's one of those things the community has been parroting for so long that I personally don't believe anybody when they say they want real competition in PvP. Bungo gave them CBMM and now low experience players have become cannon fodder for experienced players. It may not be how you feel personally, but that is the way it actually is in the game right now. That's why I don't play nor do I want to take the time to play. I don't feel like being spawn camped for 400 matches until I find a team to sweat with, which I'll have to do hours every day to keep up with everybody. Bungo itself says they want PvP to be approachable, but haven't done what's necessary to make that happen. The experienced community doesn't want it approachable, they want it easy (the majority do anyway), so it's a lose lose. I'd rather not be a part of it either way lol.
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Alright then. I wasn't being rude, I was asking. But I get what you're saying
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[quote]Alright then. I wasn't being rude, I was asking. But I get what you're saying[/quote] To be honest, your previous reply sounded condescending AF.