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Destiny 2

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12/12/2019 4:03:19 AM
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On why "time travel" has now become a thing

So, a lot of people are upset with how the season is going. Some people think that the story is actually awful to. I've heard that Osiris is not in character here - why does the sundial even exist? Why does it even work the way it does? After all "if the Vex could time travel, we would already have lost". Yet here we are in the season of Dawn, doing what's essentially time travel. That's what it is after right? We're going back in time to change history and save Saint-14. Breaks the rules yes? Well, imo, yes and no. Yes, the Vex cannot time travel as we think and know it. After all if they could they would simply ensure certain things never happen - Traveler never finds us (which they actually cannot influence, but more on this if you want in another post), Humanity never survives the collapse, they never lose in the Vault, etc. So how can we do it if the super-intelligent got milk bots cant? Well, the Sundial isn't just Vex tech. It's Guardian tech, which means it runs on Light. Light is paracausal, which means it doesn't play by the rules. Yes we're breaking the rules of time travel in the sense that we are changing the past, but we've done this before in the Vault of Glass. According to all Vex timelines we die in the Vault. Erased from history is essentially what I believe happens to any team that goes in. Pahanin most likely was not the first to enter the vault with his team, but we never hear of them because the Vex just make it so those teams never existed. Yet we not only escaped the vault, we conquered it, and changed time. We did it again with the Vex future in the questline for No Time to Explain, wherein the Taken future of the Vex will never happen. So essentially, the Sundial accesses the timelines the Vex simulate, but focuses our Light to the point where we can do what the Vex do in a more immediate sense - we can simulate our own possibility and change our own timeline because our Light lets us circumvent the rule of reality. We're only able to do this however, because the Psion Flayers have done messed with the timey wimey stuff and made the Sundial do all sorts of crazy stuff that it wasn't intended for but could always do - access the multiple simulations of the Vex and manipulate them, then brute force them to be reality. Osiris planned on using his Light to brute force reality to accept a timeline where Saint never died to that one specific mind, but he failed because he was missing something. The Perfect Paradox. It's like knowing the number for a variable. Osiris needed to know "x" to find Saint, but he could never find that "x" because he never had it. But we do, because we made the Perfect Paradox. The Shotgun exists because we forged it from the infinite forge - yet we don't actually do that to get the shotgun. Instead, we get it off his corpse. So how did we forge it then? Well we just did with the quest - and then gave him that shotgun for us to claim centuries later. The reason we're able to find Saint is because we're connected to him through time - That shotgun could not exist without us, but we don't even know it exists and that we forged it until we get it from Saint. So to make the current timeline we live in in the Destiny Universe true we have to have made the weapon and given it to Saint, which we just did. We also need to have found the Shotgun in order to know that it exists, which we already did. So our current timeline is set. What Bungie intends to have us do is change the current timeline by changing a moment within the Vex Network that is set in stone - but that we can access because of our connection to Saint. In so doing, we're using our Light to brute force our way into the Network, forcibly change the Simulation and thus the script of the current timeline, and brute force that outcome into our own reality, making it so. Time Travel, except its only very specific and only possible because of the Light and a Paradox.
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#destiny2 #lore

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  • This is great. There is a tiny bit that’s inaccurate though, specifically a little bit about how the Sundial works (I say a tiny bit, but it takes a lot of words to describe so pardon the text wall). I also think it would be very beneficial to describe how the Vex use time travel and how the Infinite Forest works, which have been explained very thoroughly since Vanilla D1. So here I go: [spoiler]The Vex do time travel, but they do not follow linear time (past, present, future). Instead the Vex pass through infinite timelines, taking place in infinite different pasts, presents, and futures. So imagine the scale of the Vex Network when we are told that the Vex’s goal is to make all the infinite timelines end in the Convergence. But the Vex don’t mess with time linearly, so no, they can’t just go and change our past. They would go and do stuff in a past timeline. And for those who don’t know, the Infinite Forest makes simulations. It is [b]not[/b] time travel. The Vex use it to make infinite simulations, which are used to study and test potential futures. The Vex Network is connected across timelines and they are unbelievably good at predicting and simulating things (though they can’t predict paracausal powers like the Dark and Light), so the simulations can resemble other timelines. The Sundial is different. The Sundial is connected to the entire planet of Mercury, not just the Infinite Forest, meaning it’s connected to the Vex Network (Mercury is entirely converted and connected to the Vex Network). Through this connection with the Vex Network, the Sundial is connected to time. But it doesn’t end there. As you said, the Sundial uses the Light, which is paracausal and makes impossible things possible. But it isn’t the Light that makes the Sundial work. It’s the core. We don’t know what the core is yet, but it whispers and the Drifter, Osiris, and Psion Sisters know it’s bad news. This core is what allows the Sundial to screw with linear time. The Sundial doesn’t use simulations at all, but Osiris created simulations in the Infinite Forest so that he could see all the possible effects that the Sundial would have if it was used. After running many simulations on different possibilities, Osiris managed to figure out how to create and use the Sundial without any horrible repercussions. Of course, the Sundial failed and the Psion Sisters started making a mess of things after they found it. When Osiris used the Sundial, it didn’t work for a simple reason: he couldn’t find the right place and time. He is no Vex and could not map his way through the Network into the right place and time. All he could do was send his Echoes through the Vex Network and hope they came out in the right place and time. The only ones who truly could have navigated the Network to find the correct place and time are the Vex themselves. But, as we all know, the Vex got milk but they ain’t sharing.[/spoiler]

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  • My question is why the hell are we saving Saint 14 and not going back in time to save Cayde and put Uldren Sov permanently in the ground.

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    • Only way to get Cayde back.

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    • The vex can time travel [i]through[/i] the vault of glass. But we stopped them. From what I understand, the sundial is a mix of the infinite forests simulations and Osiris’s work. Anything we take from it is essentially a simulation that we were able to give physical properties. That or it is literally different dimensions which have been confirmed in game,

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      • Time travel is a get out of jail free card for writers. It’s a way insuring a way of fixing any problem.

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        • Time travel occurs in video games and movies if the developers have no clue what to do with the storylines Example: X-men days of future past.

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          • You know we AREN’T changing history, right? Why do you think our Ghost was so hesitant on showing Saint the future and then when we got out of there to talk to Osiris again, Ghost checked the databases to make sure historical records were still the same. Also, “Time travel” doesn’t exist in this game. It’s just not time travel. It’s something else entirely

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            • time travel is the worst.

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            • Timey wimey :)

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            • Edited by Ghost593835: 12/12/2019 11:24:12 PM
              https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/185111279587819520/616759515928461329/image0-30.jpg The comics says high.

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            • Because it makes for easy and lazy writing? I like your explanation but Bungo has just taken the path of least resistance like they always do.

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              • We imbued it with light too, like you said us guardians are para causel, doesn’t that make the light para causel too?

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              • It's a boot strap paradox

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              • If people are confused as to why time travel is now a thing in the Destiny universe, then they haven't really been paying attention to the Lore up to this point.

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                • I’m do glad someone spent the time to explain this in such detail and beauty. It brings a tear to my eye ;)

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                • Avengers Endgame

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                • I think the reason we cant use this to win is that it is inaccurate time travel, like you cant pick the time you want to go to.

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