Destiny is a grind game. "Boosting some number" is literally the only point to it, the only objective. I mean it sure as heck isn't "to progress in the story," you can crank through that in less than a day. When a game fails at the only objective it offers, it's a trash game.

Destiny is a grind game from your point of view. I’m not saying you’re wrong, I’m saying that’s your perspective and not mine. I played gambit, after already being Dredgen, for about 4 hours with a buddy I got to pick up the game with new light. That was a ton of fun. There’s no new quests. There was extremely minimal and increases in light after I cleared the bounties. But I had fun. You just have a different definition of fun. Guess what - that’s ok. But what I’m sick of is people like you polluting the forums with your nonsensical bullshit. If you don’t like the game, go play something else and get out of the forums so those that like it can enjoy it. Why is that such a difficult thing to understand?

If the game is so much fun, why are you on the forums digging into threads that are clearly (by the title alone) posted by someone who is NOT enjoying the game instead of playing it? I have no sympathy for people who [u]intentionally[/u] seek out negativity and then -blam!- about finding it. This is the [b]feedback[/b] forum. Love it, hate it, like it how it is, or need it to change, that's what [u]this[/u] forum is about. That means criticism WILL happen here, complaints WILL be found here, players telling Bungie what they're doing right OR wrong WILL be found here. Don't want to see that? Then what the -blam!- are you doing here? Like I said, I got no sympathy for you. Get over yourself. People who DON'T like the way the game is right now have the right to air their grievances in the dim hope that Bungie will unplug their ears, pull their heads from their asses, and actually listen for once. Your approval is not needed.

Sigh. I’m not here to change your mind. You just wanna be mad to be mad so I’m gonna not reply to you after this. The honest reason I come to these forums is it’s something to do while I poop. The forums are toxic because 90% of the threads made is from a small portion of the player base with just over simplistic arguments about nothing. I can’t think of a game that I’ve played for 3 weeks straight that I haven’t beaten or done “everything I wanted” I just don’t get the mindset that bungie must provide everything on your checklist. Did we, the player base, get to select options in advance for our requests of what we wanted in a game and they aren’t meeting them? Think like a custom order couch or car. Did you pick all of the details and they didn’t execute? Nah man. They made a good game and you feel you have some right to complain. If you don’t like it, don’t buy future expansions. And again - it’s $35-60 -blam!-ing dollars. Your life isn’t ruined by $35-60. If it is, do better with managing money and your life because that’s such a small thing to have such a huge affect on your life. I also come to the forums because There are a few posts here and there with good tips and strategies. But I’ve had enough of the just pure hatred and douchebaggery. Come up with constructive options. Relay them in a mature and positive way. Or guess what, you’re going to fall on deaf ears to the company. Why do you think adults don’t listen to children, but they listen to other adults. Furthermore, why do you think they listen to the streamers and not the -blam!-ing forums when you act like a whiny baby because “it’s your right to”. If you look at the times cozmo replies, it’s for decently written arguments that aren’t hateful and whining.

Math wasn't your best subject in school, was it? Since D1's launch the cost of keeping up with this franchise to date is over $400, not "$35-60." Let me educate you: $60 for the first base game, $20 for Dark Below, $20 for House of Wolves, $40 for Taken King, because I had to upgrade from 360 to Xbox One to keep playing AND because all previously purchased content would NOT transfer to the same damn console brand I had to pay $60 for Rise of Iron. That's $200 JUST for D1 alone. Another $60 for D2, $20 for Curse of Osiris, $20 for Warmind, had I paid full price $40 for Forsaken, $35 for the Annual Pass, another $35 for Shadowkeep, that's $210, $205 if you buy FOrsaken and the AP bundled together, for D2 [u]so far[/u] with another $30 for the remaining announced seasons before, presumably, Bungie launches D3 or else continues on with seasons at a possibly higher price tag. That's $405 total thus far for anyone who's been keeping up with all releases at launch, $435 by the end of this current year, NOT counting ANY microtransactions or "special/collector's edition" upgrades. Once again not, I repeat NOT "$35-60." You're not talking to some "New Light" n00b here, I've been playing since the D1 beta and up until Forsaken I WAS not only buying but pre-ordering every new release. I have invested 2,700 hours of my time into this franchise, only about 20 of which at most was spent enjoying "original content for the first time." The rest was nothing but pure GRIND, doing the same thing over and over again, most of the time for lazy recolors or other such re-releases of OLD content (Last Word, Thorn, etc.). So when I say "it's a grind game," trust me, I have put in the time to know that's all it is. It's absolutely not a "story-driven game" like any RPG, it's not a truly "action-driven game" like most FPS, it certainly isn't an "exploration-driven game" like most MMOs. It's a grind game. Very little story, far too much empty, wasted space in nearly every destination, and even the "action" becomes tedious and repetitive within a week of any "new" release, then it's just doing the same thing over and over grinding for something you'll almost immediately discard because it's a piece of garbage not worth all that effort (leading streamers and content creators to invent new "series" on their channels, like Th3 Jez and his "Thanks....I hate it" videos). I'm not mad because I "want to be mad," I'm "mad" because the absolute bullshit Bungie has churned out for the last 5 years has NOT been worth that $400+ price tag they've demanded, the "grind" has not been worth the 2,700 hours it's eaten up of my time, and never ONCE has Bungie ever fully delivered on what they advertised. I'm "mad" because arrogant, uninformed people like you act like I'm crazy or "entitled" to expect to get what I PAID FOR, to get what was ADVERTISED, to get what I was PROMISED. I'm "mad" because assholes like you haven't got a clue but that doesn't keep you from running your mouths, trolling people who have every right to be pissed off with Bungie. And you aren't going to find "tips and strategies" on the FEEDBACK forum. Cut the bullshit. You thrive on trolling and stirring up drama. That's the only reason why you would ever click on a thread that so very clearly is voicing discontent with the game (it's in the title, dude). I've been on these forums doing exactly what you've suggested I do for FIVE YEARS. Bungie listens to streamers because streamers are FREE ADVERTISING. Bungie caters to streamers because happy streamers convince naive viewers to become PAYING CUSTOMERS. Bungie doesn't give a rat's ass about any of us once we've given them our money unless we're in a position to convince hundreds of thousands of others to do the same, they've already proven that when Activision warned them that they were LOSING PLAYERS; Bungie's response was essentially "new suckers are biting to replace the ones we pissed off, so -blam!- you, we're awesome." They don't care about "maturity" or "well-written posts" or "constructive input." I've been doing that for five years and the only responses I get are either get OTHER players saying "wow, thank you, I've been wanting to say something on this but you put it better than I ever could," or narcissistic half-wits like you who think that if I'm not mindlessly shoving my lips up Bungie's rectum to suck the shit direct from their sphincter I must be "crying" or "whining" or "mad" because you're too dense to grasp a person can have a negative opinion of something and still be intelligent, competent, and more importantly, right. I wrote up a far better system for fully customizing armor 4 years before "Armor 2.0" was even on their table, you can't even FIND that thread on the forums anymore it's been so long. Not a peep from Bungie about it, no response from them on the thread despite getting hundreds of "likes" and comments from the community praising the idea. Bungie doesn't give a damn about how well-worded or "constructive" a post is, they only respond to blind praise of THEIR ideas and choices. Which, thus far, have been lacking at best.

Obviously I struck a cord and for that I genuinely apologize. I’ll also apologize for not reading that long block of text. But what I did gather is you said I’m bad at math for some reason while also saying you’ve spent $405 while playing for over 2700 hours. $405 spent / 2700 hours = 0.15 per hour. You’ve spent 15 cents per hour of entertainment. Come on man. There’s next to nothing that has the same value. Your words. Not mine. It’s a game. You’re allowed to be passionate and have your argument. But it’s a game. A game you’ve paid next to nothing compare to the value it gave you.

And you just struck another. This place right here? It's called a "forum." People TYPE TEXT here. If you can't be bothered to READ that text, stay the -blam!- off the forums. Do not confuse "price" for "value." Price is what you pay, value is what you get. To say nothing about what I paid FOR. I did NOT get what I paid for, period. So take a moment and ask what is a good price to pay to NOT get what you were paying FOR? For example, let's say you went to a car dealership, you're there to buy a brand new Cadillac Escalade at the hefty price of 80 grand. You go to the dealership and they SHOW you a brand new Cadillac Escalade for 80 grand. You PAY them 80 grand expecting to get a brand new Cadillac Escalade. They tell you that they will DELIVER to your door a brand new Cadillac Escalade. The day comes, the delivery truck rolls into your driveway, and drops off.... A raggedy-ass, beat-to--blam!- 1993 Geo that wouldn't even fetch $200 for scrap. But you're 80 grand in the hole now so you have no choice, you HAVE to drive this bucket of shit. They have a strict "no refunds" policy and the fine print on the agreement you signed says they can make any changes, substitutions, or alterations they deem necessary without your consent nor knowledge. So you're stuck with it, you've spent all your savings on this, you're not going to be able to buy another car, not even another junker, for years. It fought you every step of the way, required multiple trips to the garage for repairs that never seemed to solve any of the problems, constantly breaks down, never reaches highway speeds, just all around it's an absolute piece of shit car but it's all you've got to work with and you can't even turn around and sell it. So you're stuck dealing with it for years. Did you get what you paid for? Was it well worth the price? If it takes you a year, three years, five years, a decade to finally give up and decide your not dumping any more money into it, if it dies on the road you're leaving it there and forgetting it, does it suddenly become a great car that was worth the price you paid? Of course not. A piece of shit car is still a piece of shit car, and you did NOT drop 80 grand for a piece of shit car. You shopped for, paid for, and were promised a brand new Cadillac Escalade, not some junker. I shopped for, paid for, and was promised a game that would not only combine RPG, FPS, and MMO genres, it would BURY all other games in any and all of those categories. Bigger story than Final Fantasy, bigger worlds than Elder Scrolls, better gunplay than Halo, CoD, or any other FPS out there. What I GOT was a shit story I could go back and burn through in its entirety in four hours or less (bare minimum in any Final Fantasy game I've ever played, even ignoring time spent on grind and sidequests, was two weeks), entire "planets" that would fit inside a single Skyrim dungeon and RATTLE, and by far THE single most unbalanced, glitch-ridden, BROKEN AS -blam!- PvP experience I have EVER seen in nearly 30 years of gaming. And you're telling me I got a "deal?" That chord you struck? It's got a name. It's called "no patience for dumb asses."

So I read this one actually. I get you’re mad. You’re analogy is a bit of an exaggeration though. But I have a question. If you buy that car and have those issues, do you go to “car buyer forums” and complain relentlessly? Do you go back and buy another car from them? Nah. You don’t. Cause you’re probably not an idiot. It’s almost like you wanna call channel 7 and have exclusive report on how poorly you’ve been treated over a god blessed video game. Yes, you’re correct and I’d agree buying something and not getting what you thought was advertised does suck. But you keep buying and keep playing after repeatedly being disappointed. You brag about the hours you put in but that only makes me more confused. When are you going to take your own knowledge and move on if you don’t like it or if it makes you this angry? Lastly, Just because you can scream in public doesn’t mean you should. Just because you can drink a full 5th in 30 seconds, doesn’t mean you should. Just because you can complain on the forums, doesn’t mean you should. What did we accomplish here? Honestly? You yelled at some random stranger and probably got more angry. For what?

Short answer: yes. I go anywhere and everywhere I can to call those filthy, lying douchebags out, to expose their bullshit for what it is, to demand they make things right whether they have any "legal obligation" to do so, and if nothing else to raise enough hell about it to convince others to shop elsewhere and not fall for the same scam, to drive away as many customers and cut into their profit margin as much as I possibly can because maybe, just maybe, if I hit them hard enough in the only place they care about (their wallet) they'll cut the shit and deal more honestly in the future. Slim chance, I know, but keeping silent and walking away means no chance at all. The continued purchases were the "trips to the garage" in the analogy. Every time Bungie promised they were fixing everything, finally making everything right again, that they'd finally listened to us, learned their lesson, and would actually deliver. Yes, obviously I was an idiot to keep falling for that same bullshit for four years. By Forsaken I had "wised up" enough to not preorder or even pay full price, I waited until a bunch of Black Friday deals dropped the price down to less than half and didn't buy the AP until another group of coinciding sales cut that down to about $12. Shadowkeep was when I finally stopped altogether, and decided I wouldn't give them another penny unless they made it clear they'd truly changed, that all this talk of Activision holding them back and causing them to make bad decisions wasn't just blowing smoke. So far, they're failing miserably. And I wasn't "bragging" about the hours I put in. That wasn't about boasting, it was about establishing plain and simple that I HAVE put in enough time to know this game for what it is; to establish that I'm not one of these whiny kids whose got their shorts in a twist because they're not at the cap with all the top-god-roll gear they want in the first day, that I have experience and have seen enough of this game to have an informed opinion. And remember that bit of the analogy where I said you'd spent all your savings so you were stuck with that piece of shit car? That wasn't just fluff and filler. I don't generally buy new games, I don't generally pay full price whenever I can get a deal, that $435 would usually nab me 30-40 games at my local game shop. But, the problem there is I haven't been funding Destiny through cash from a job. I've been using Bing reward points and Amazon credit from surveys, things I can't take to the local game shop but I CAN take to the Xbox Marketplace. But the long and short of it is still this: I've spent too much on this game, I don't really have too many other options right now. And part of why I'm still here is, quite simply, I'm a stubborn, bull-headed ass hellbent on trying to MAKE Bungie turn this game into something that IS worth the time and money I've already invested. Still determined to get my "return on investment." And if nothing else I've got people in my clan who'd be bummed if I just stopped playing altogether. We don't play together often, but the option being there is still something. As for what I accomplished, hell if I know, dude. Ii like to imagine someone, somewhere within the Bungie hierarchy will see my posts, report it to someone in a position to make decisions, and maybe the game will finally get better. Because honestly those 20 or so hours over the last five years of "oh, this is new" actually WAS fun. Destiny CAN be a very fun game. I have never once in the last five years claimed Destiny doesn't have any potential. It has tons of it. And at the root that's really what pisses me off the most. Maybe it's something of a "personal chip on my shoulder" because I've been told by every teacher and authority figure my entire life that I'm "not living up to my full potential" so much so that I started to hate the word. But that's what we have here. A game with boundless potential that it simply is NOT living up to, not even close. Games that came out decades before it have done more, it IS possible for Destiny to be more, and Bungie (contrary to the impression they've been giving lately) are NOT rank amateurs with no clue how to make a fun to play, highly-successful game franchise (hello, Halo) but for some reason they just can't get their act together on this one. I half-jokingly, half-dead serious posted a comment to their Careers twitter account that they should hire me on as a consultant to tell them when they're about to make a really bad decision that will be very poorly received by the community at large because at the risk of sounding boastful, I haven't been wrong yet, and that really makes it feel like Bungie doesn't even play their own game outside of their dev environment or occasional "Bungie Bounty" events. It's like they have no clue what the players will love or hate and they keep making damned foolish choices. So for as long as I am able, or at least for as long as I still give a damn about this game in any way, shape, or form, I WILL be fighting to see it get better. Because I want THIS game to be better, not the reason why I have to find some other franchise to invest in. Isn't that why we're all here on the feedback forum? To discuss the highs and lows and try to find a way to tip the scales in favor of the former and reduce the latter? Yea, there will be times of just "I need to vent and bust out a caps lock or twelve because this is pissing me off so much I can't think clearly." Most of the time after several comments and "conversations" like this right here I end up making a thread of my own, far more civil and well-written, because these little "screaming matches" help me clear my head.

Caring is better than hating. That’s for sure. Maybe you’ve lost fun in the game. You on pc or Xbox? I promise I’ll make you have fun in some gambit or laugh at how bad I am in crucible. Add me. I’ll play with ya and make it fun. Or don’t. That’s ok too. But if you’re trying to build the game, negative words that are misread by the community is not a good place to start. We need more people playing with passion and excitement. I love the game as well. Which is why I enter these debates. I’ve also logged a ton of hours all the way back to d1y1. This isn’t a pissing contest. This is another person ON YOUR SIDE saying hey man. Let’s find another way to do it. And I’ll prob be playing tonight if you’d like to join. Let’s gooooo. Ps - don’t join if you suck at gambit

Pretty sure I can have fun playing gambit at 850 or 965 light. My fun is not tied to light level. Just sayin. And guys and gals - THIS. HAS. BEEN. THE. CASE. FOR. EVERY. EXPANSION. Why are you surprised?

That is exactly what I did, got my titan to 900, realized it wasn't fun, moved on to games that are fun............

Got your Titan to 900 the soft cap and couldn't be bothered trying out the actual end game okay then bye bye scrub

Yup, you go have enough fun for the both of us, bye bye fan boy.

Stayed on the forums. Amazing

Yup, I like to see all the nonsense that the fan boys come up with...........