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Destiny 2

Discuss all things Destiny 2.
8/26/2018 2:08:01 PM
15

The Gardener and the Queen of Final Shapes

<The Traveler and the Darkness. Two sides opposite the other. One that bases its life on conquering everything, the one that has its own dimension of powerful entities. The other allows life to flourish beyond natural evolution, giving. Two sides. Light and Dark. Two entities to carry it. That's right, entities. Contrary to the Eliksni line of thinking, and especially the Cabal point of view, the Traveler is a being wrapped in a shell. Consider the Dreams of Alpha Lupi, for the purpose of these I will consult those on the Traveler, but the ones on the celestial objects of Sol are also from its point of view. Or rather, a 2nd Person PoV. [quote]You have lived as invisibly as possible, flicking from solar system to solar system, making grand plans, overseeing the culturing of civilizations, before leaving in a blink. But you have no recollection of ever wanting worship or even thanks from those blessed by you. But memory is heavy now. It feels like lead and neutronium and electroweak matter fashioned into a moon-sized ball that you must carry as you move. Now, your flight is rapid, your vast mind infected with such dread and toxic doubt that you find yourself afraid of the simple act of thought. And it is your children you must turn to now, in time of need.[/quote] Want a little bit more? [quote]That you've made breakthrough after breakthrough as to their origins— theories that a Guardian could not be simulated, that the Traveler might be an ontoformer or a god-incubator[/quote] That's from the Osiris grimoire card. Scream folklore all you want, but these two haven't been retconned. Osiris is almost never wrong. Even in CoO, he just has an ego on him. You can take "ontoformer" and "god-incubator" a number of ways, but in the end I think many of those views are right. The Traveler has its own thought its own drive its own fears. The Gardener is an entity that carries the Light with it. As for IT, the Darkness, the Deep, the Queen of Final Shapes, the Flower-Eater... well things get a little more complicated because we have so little information about the damn thing. Why don't we consult the Books of Sorrow? [quote]He went out and he created an altar and he prepared an unborn ogre. He called on the Deep, saying: I can see you in the sky. You are the waves, which are battles, and the battles are the waves. Come into this vessel I have prepared for you. And it arrived, the Deep Itself.[/quote] Verse XXXI: Battle Made Waves The Deep is an entity unto itself. It, too, is a god-like being with immense strength. A truly majestic entity. Now that we've proven they are beings and not simply a force (though they both have powers) or a Great Machine (though the Traveler's shell has some interesting mechanics I'd like to take a look at). What ARE they? I'm talking gender (if that's even plausible), looks, etc. Let's start with the Gardener. Rasputin, a pre-Golden Age AI augmented over time, started calling it this. He refers to the Gardener almost exclusively with feminine pronouns. Whether this is a reference to its nature, the fact that it appears as a ball-shaped ship, or if this is its actual identity is unknown. Another clue would be one of the original storyboards for D1. Even though the original storyline is pretty much forgotten, there are things in it that should be taken into account. In one storyboard there was a crashed ship on Mars, which is apparently why the OG team was sent. Inside the ship they met a woman clad in white with bright blue eyes. Although she said "the Traveler is coming" there's a possibility her role could be put (or retconned as y'all like to say) AS the Traveler, otherwise she is another forgotten asset of a story before the original story. As for IT. Besides being another edition of Dark entities that apparently like to be called "IT", there's a chance that this being is more... Rasputin hasn't had enough time to study the Deep, here's something we can draw from him. He uses IT mostly when referring to the Darkness. However, I'm interested in its other names. One name in particular is the "Queen of Final Shapes". This would make sense due to the Deep's obsession with the "Final Shape" of the universe. [quote]and not one of IT [the flower eater, the queen of final shapes, that which also inhabits its petitioners][/quote] Excerpt from Ghost Fragment: Rasputin 4 This isn't the first time it's been referred to as a "Queen". [quote]Imagine three great nations under three great queens. The first queen writes a great book of law and her rule is just. The second queen builds a high tower and her people climb it to see the stars. The third queen raises an army and conquers everything. The future belongs to one of these queens. Her rule is harshest and her people are unhappy. But she rules.[/quote] Excerpt from Ghost Fragment: Darkness 3 The "Queen of Armies". So, is the Deep an IT or is it a She? What does this entity look like? What about the ability to possess other beings? Does the latter determine what it's referred to? Does it have a sex? What is IT? [quote]Consider IT the power Titanomach world-ender and consider what IT means. I met IT at the gate of the garden and I recall IT smiled at me before before IT devoured the blossoms with black flame and pinned their names across the sky. IT was stronger than everything. I fought IT with aurora knives and with the stolen un-fire of singularities made sharp and my sweat was earthquake and my breath was static but IT was stronger so how did I survive? I AM ALONE I survived alone. I cast off the shield and I shrugged my shoulders so that the billions fell off me down into the ash. They made me to be stronger than them and to learn and I learned well: IT is alone and IT is strong and IT won. Even over the gardener and she held power beyond me but the gardener did not shrug and make herself alone. IT always wins.[/quote] Is IT like the Flood? Able to infiltrate digital systems as well as physical? What is the Queen of Armies, of Final Shapes? There's Nothing. NOTHING. A Void of Nothing. A Perfect Void. Guess we'll find out in 2 years where the Blight comes from... Whatever it is must be, it is majestic. Majestic. It is the only thing that can be true in and of itself. It is what IT is.>

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  • I think they are gonna reveal abit about the pyramid ships in the Forsaken campaign.

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  • I ways assumed the 3 queen analogy was ablut tje 3 hive princeses.

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  • Where do the Doritos of Doom fit in all this?

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    • Oh my god. I just realized this. 4 damn years and I just realized this. The Traveler is the Gardener because it cultivates civilizations. We are the flowers. The Darkness is called the "flower-eater" because, well, you get the picture. Damn, how did I miss this?

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    • I'm putting this in the Requested Archives, if you're ok with it.

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      • Edited by CIKiller 045: 8/26/2018 10:24:48 PM
        If the Traveler's shell is made of neutronium, that shard should have sunk to the center of the Earth and ripped it in half. For those of you that don't know what Neutronium is, I want you to imagine an atom. Each atom is made of Protons, Electrons, and Neutrons, but is still 99.99% empty space. These atoms made of empty space make up everything around us: Your phone, us, and the planet we live on. However, this isn't the case for everything in the universe. There is something not made of atoms that is the potential result of a massive star's death: the neutron star, which is made of neutronium. Neutron stars, and by extension, neutronium, are created when a star exceeding 1.4 solar masses(meaning it's 1.4 times bigger than our sun) goes supernova. From there, it becomes one of 2 things: A neutron star, or a black hole. When a supernova that forms a neutron star occurs, the Protons, Electrons, and Neutrons of every atom that made up the star get clumped together so tightly to the point that there is virtually no space between them, the Electrons and Protons merge and become Neutrons because their charges cancel each other out, leaving a material composed entirely of Neutrons, with no empty space between any of them. As a result of there being no empty space between any of the Neutrons in neutronium, the material is absurdly dense. For example: A neutron star has the mass of 1-3 of our suns, but is in a sphere only 20-25 km in diameter. If you had a hard time imagining that, then here's another example: A cube of Neutronium the size of a die would have the mass of an iron cube 700 meters across on every side. When I found out that this is what the Traveler was made of, I thought to myself "Thank god it flies, or else we'd all be dead", but then I remembered that there is a shard of the Traveler in the EDZ. Let that sink in(pun not intended), if the Traveler is indeed made of Neutronium, there is now a massive shard composed of it that has somehow not sunk into Earth. This also presents an even bigger question: What could have enough firepower to damage the Traveler, a giant ball of the densest material in the universe, in such a way that large portions of it were ripped off of it? Sorry for this long message, but I had to get this thought out of my head.

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        • The Thicc Queen. 👌

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        • I agree with the Saint-14 point of view, that the darkness is an invading armada of an alien force. And we’ve already encountered it The Heart of the Black Garden and the hive. But at its core I believe that the Darkness is an exact yang to the lights yin, that it also has the ability to empower beings with its power and that the ships we saw in the cutscene is the first of the true “darkness” that we will face.

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          • Ulan Tan would be proud

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            • I agree with Ulan-tan’s point of view, personally. We’ve seen a lot that proves his theory of symmetry, and I think that it also provides the best ending to the franchise, one where we give up our Light to end the Darkness. As for the feminine terms used for the Light and Darkness, you’re overthinking it. It’s not uncommon to use female pronouns for things like ships, guns, machines, etc.

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              • A ridiculously convoluted way to say the following. There is an entity called the darkness. There is an entity called the light which we know as the Traveller (note this is the name WE gave it not it's actual name). There is a third entity which is balanced. Neither light nor dark but, equally of both. All three oppose each other but, in the grand scheme of things it's likely that the grey will win. Toland referred to them as the three queens but, they could easily be the three kings, three sisters, three brothers etc. etc. All three likely have the same ultimate function i.e to create a God or being of their element to rule and shape the universe. It's highly likely that our guardian came directly from the traveller and wasn't actually ever human to begin with. I think that covers the whole thing. Time to go back to sleep.

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                • When has the flood ever transcended into the digital? They are a parasite, a very intelligent and powerful one.

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                  • I get the impression from some of the BoS that the Deep is sort of a place (as well as a force/entity/thing). Also Xol’s line in The Whisper: “you shall drown in the deep” (or something to that effect). Perhaps IT is too metaphysically vast for lesser beings to comprehend, so instead we interpret it as a void, the same way the back of your hand may seem like a desert to a dust mite.

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                    • Who wins The Deep vs Elder gods Elder gods feats [spoiler]This is Quantum Mnemonics, the Old Ones' primary power, described as such is Millennial Rites. With only a few words, they can create and destroy universes and warp them to their will: The most powerful tool developed by the Time Lords was block transfer computation, the ultimate expression of mathematics. With it, one could manipulate matter and energy, time and space, and fold dimensions like so much origami. It was the fundamental basis of the TARDIS technology that surrounded him, and had even been harnessed to bleed off excess entropy from the universe, extending its lifespan by incalculable aeons. Quantum mnemonics, the dark science of an earlier race of Time Lords, made block transfer computation seem like a conjuring trick. With just a few words, a practitioner of their great art could grasp the basic nature of reality around the throat and shake it into a new configuration. A bon mot of quantum mnemonics could bring about a premature death, or a run of good luck. A sentence could transform a planet's history and destiny, changing a world of barbaric war into an elysium. And a carefully constructed paragraph could rewrite the entire universe. Or destroy it utterly. [/spoiler]

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                    • The Darkness was the heart of the black garden. We killed it, but the entire story team was gone from bungie by that point. This lead them to scatter and make up a whole bunch of semi connected, throwaway storylines. Thank God for you dedicated masses that spackle together some form of coherent ideas, that they later use as their source material for future expansions.

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