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12/1/2022 12:20:33 PM
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Hardly.
Once again, this is the shakeup in the player base that I said was going to happen when Bungie announced "Unification of Vision" before the release of Shadowkeep.
Before that, Bungie (under the lash of Activision) was trying (and failing) to make a game for everyone, and made a game that NO ONE was happy with. A game where everyone was fighting for control over, and HOPING it would become the game they wanted.
But with Unification of Vision, Bungie said, "We're done. This is the game we're going to make. Its going to be a particular kind of game, for a particular type of player." Within their own ranks, those who couldn't get behind the shift left Bungie and went to work elsewhere.
I said that a similar shakeout was going to happen among the player base, because the game was going to change in ways that some of you weren't going to like. That some of you would be forced to re-evaluate your relationship to the game.
...and here we are.
But the problem is that many of you haven't moved on. You keep playing the game, and hoping that if you voice your discontent that Bungie will stop moving down the path the game is evolving on. Others have stopped playing the game...but then continue to hang around the community to grind the axe of their discontent.
While failing to notice that they are a very solid community of players---especially in PVE---who are quite happy with the way things are going. There are some outdated systems that need to be overhauled....and some QoL changes that need to be made. But no sense that the game is a "failure".
In my own case, anything but. With each passing year the game is becoming more and more of what I had hoped it would become....and realizing more and more of its potential as an action-RPG/MMO-RPG/FPS hybrid.
English
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True it’s a PvE focused game now. Which is why the player base has shrank so much.
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Perhaps. Probably, even. But my point has been that this was inevitable. Bungie has a share in this because they refuse to admit that pvp and pve in this game are incompatible with each other. So each improvement to pve makes pvp less of a game of shooting skill and more of a contest of build-strength…and as long as they share the same sandbox, there is no fixing that.
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Agree I would like Crucible to be walled off. I’d pay for the extra cost.
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I think most dedicated pvp players feel the same way. The problem seems to be that Bungie just can’t do it, but refuses to be honest about it.
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You’re right!
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Im in a 100 person active clan, we are all universally unhappy and have without conversation or group effort all slowly quit the game. It is not in a good state regardless of pvp, pve casual or hardcore. The game is all time boring atm. My friends list goes 5-6 pages when the game is good. Currently 3-5 people online max. Yes this is the end of the season and yes this is the worse i have ever seen the game population. And nothing bungie has said has inspired any conversation or hype in our discord. Everyone has moved on to pokemon, gow and cod. Next week we wil return. But shortly after i cant see us staying. And we are hardcore players
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Iow, your clan has moved on to other [i]shooters.[/i] My clan(s)? Go play other RPGs when they aren’t playing Destiny (The Division 2, FF XIV, Ghost Recon: Breakpoint, Assassin’s Creed, etc…) I’m not surprised that those who want a more shooter-oriented experience are unhappy. THAT was the part of the player base that I expected to not accept the changes when Bungie announced that the game was going to treated as an “action-MMO”… and that it’s RPG elements were a core feature of the game.
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Serious Question. You mention being quite happy with PVE. I'd love to be in your shoes. What am I missing? And what are you doing that's fun & compels you, in a good way, to log in every day? I haven't logged-in in weeks because there's just nothing fun or compelling to do.
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You're missing that KellyGreen will show up to defend Bungie like they're cashing a paycheck.
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And then did not answer my question. FWIW, I'd still love to know how one can enjoy PVE and/or the direction this game is going in with regard to PVE. I want to believe... What exactly is the direction that is so good? I don't see any direction at all, just the fatiguing tug of war of a game that's at odds with itself in almost every aspect.
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I’m assuming this was directed towards me. I did answer your question, just not in the way you wanted. 1. You can’t play any game all-day-everyday for years without burning out and getting sick of it. No matter how good it is. One night of your favorite meal is a treat. Eating it three meals a day, everyday for a year is torture. Actively managing your relationship to the game, and honoring your feelings when you don’t want to play or don’t want to play a particular part of the game is CENTRAL to how I’ve lasted this long, and how I stay positive. 2. I’m the kind of player that Bungie is making this game for. I love RPGs, action RPGs, going all the way back to the first Diablo game (as I eagerly await Diablo 4). During the current lull, I went back and played through the first 3 Uncharted games. So to me, Destiny is a rapidly improving action RPG, with a taste of what makes MMOs fun to play…and some of the most amazing action gameplay around. The guns feel good. The movement is intuitive. The power-fantasy is addictive…. and the sense of immersion is unmatched. Things most action-RPGS can’t touch. That is what Destiny does that other games can’t touch. …and the game has never lost that. The only other game whose controls and sense of movement is anything as intuitive as Destiny’s is Sony’s Spider-Man game. That game sense of movement is so amazing that you’ll play, and your mouth will drop as you think,”Did I just do that???”. Destiny is the only other game that has given me that sense of wonder as I play it…and it still does. It was the sense of immersion that sealed the deal for me. I have never been a big fan of FPS. They hold my attention to awhile, but the repetitive play loop eventually bores me and I lose interest (Halo). But I knew Bungie had something very special when I was roaming the Cosmodrome during the D1 beta, and I got into a boxing match with Vandal…and I caught myself cursing at it. I was so immersed that I was invested emotionally in what was happening on the screen. No other video game had affected me like that before. Especially an action game. I felt personally threatened. Later in the beta, Bungie took that and cranked it to “11” after that first cut scene with Elsie Bray (Exo Stranger) as were were about to enter the Temple of Crota on the Moon. Once the door opened, this tsunami of Hive came pouring out and rushing straight toward our Guardian. I was caught so completely unprepared for this that it actually caused me to freeze for a split-second. Then panic for a few seconds. Which was an impressive accomplishment. As someone who deals with emergencies IRW (no combat, fortunately), I don’t panic. So it was amazing to see a game be able to get under my skin like that. TLDR: I enjoy the game because I’ve never let expectations or a sense of entitlement undermine the joy and fun of simply playing the game. Which, sadly, I think many of you have allowed to happen.
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That’s just it. I don’t log in everyday, right now. The game is moving in the direction I want it to move, AND I manage my relationship to the game. I’ve exhausted all the content for this season, and if completed the Triumphs that I care about. So I’ve walked away and am playing other games until next reset. I don’t force myself to keep playing if there’s nothing I find interesting or fun to do…so I don’t get burned out and bitter over the game. I also don’t try to brute force grinds like raid exotics or weapons crafting. So I don’t get stuck in this tiny, repetitive play loop that burns me out and kills the fun. In short I play what’s fun…and when it stops being fun I stop…and I don’t come back until I feel that urge to want to play again
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Ghostwriter Scallywag Flamekeeper Vidmaster Dredgen
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This is the best way to entertain the game.
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It’s why I’ve been able to play this game for 8 years and remain positive about it.
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I like the game and can remain positive but I want the game to grow. Just doing small things now ie chasing weapon rolls or weapons I dont have.
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Modifié par xbroggiex : 12/1/2022 3:02:06 PM[quote]In my own case, anything but. With each passing year the game is becoming more and more of what I had hoped it would become....and realizing more and more of its potential as an action-RPG/MMO-RPG/FPS hybrid.[/quote] It will never be a true RPG, it doesn't have meaningful character dialogue that involves the player character or different dialogue choices. Most of the stats in the game do not matter and there is very little in build variety and class identity. It will never be a true MMO or even close to it with only 24 players in a social space and the game crashing and dying if 12 players are in the same instance even if it isn't a public instance. It also lacks fundamental features of an MMO like true guilds/clans D2 clans are basically nothing but a way to get extra engrams there is no gameplay or social elements tied to clans at all. There is no trading or marketplace to sell items, there is no social ability (Why is there no proximity chat in the open world or the tower?). It also doesn't have any actual open world content besides many years old public events that reward nothing. They are even starting to fail at the FPS part of the game with the lack of balancing between weapon archetypes leaving things like Auto Rifles, Pulse Rifles and even Hand Cannons neutered in PvE. Face it Bungie still doesn't know what they want Destiny to be otherwise we wouldn't be in this -blam!- state.
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What’s a Unification of Vision?
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Unification of Vision was basically a policy statement by former Game Director He-Who-Shall-Not-Be-Named the summer after Forsaken and before the release of Shadowkeep. It was after the break from Activision and right after a major management shake up at Bungie during late winter and spring. As a result of this most of the senior devs with a pvp focus, and almost all of those who were responsible for the disaster that was vanilla D2 left the company. This needed to happen because for years there had been a lot of infighting among the devs about what kind of game Destiny should be. One faction, led by the current senior leadership saw the game as an action-rpg/mmo/ FPS hybrid (“action MMO”), while another faction saw Destiny as the successor to Halo and wanted the game to be more of a campaign shooter with a pvp focus and potential e-sport. These two factions fought for control of the game, and who ever was on top at the time designed the game to their own vision. Which led to lots of chaos, development reboots, late scrambles to get a viable product and two poor launches. Vanilla D2 was designed to the vision of the Halo/pvp faction…and it was a disaster. The community hated it, player numbers plummeted (which is why I laugh at the idea that the game is currently “dying”)…and it nearly destroyed the franchise. So it was clear that the player base sided with the “action MMO” faction. [i]Unification of vision[/i] was that groups public announcement that this infighting was over. That Destiny was going to be treated and evolve as an action RPG, and that Bungie was committed to overhauling this game and perfecting it, rather than abandoning it for a Destiny 3 that was required by the Activision contract. So the ways in which the game has changed since then has been Bungie’s implementation of that plan. Light 3.0 was one of the last pieces to the puzzle in getting the game to play more like an action RPG, and less of a shooter.
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Thanks! I knew some of that, but didn’t have the complete picture, nor did I know it was a mission statement.
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It’s was technically an announcement stream for the fall release of Shadowkeep. But Bungie also used it as a chance to put forward a mission statement for the future of the game, and set expectations going forwards…..
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Modifié par A_mo : 12/1/2022 1:54:03 PMIt's not just the people that have failed to move on that are the problem atm. That particular type of player you mentioned should also share some, if not most of the responsibility for where the community's orientation towards the game is at this point. It was pretty obvious that people wanted to ignore the fact that they were buying the whole cow when it was decided that a certain mindset would be catered to by the game, especially when it comes to pvp. So the people that would rather that particular part of the game had gone in a different direction should not be the ones being blamed. And I think that basically the same can be said for pve. It's yours so you own it. It's not 2019. And this is not making excuses for the useless bigots or things like that. Just want to make sure I point that out. That's a whole different issue.
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Not blaming anyone…and a game made for everyone is a game made for no one. I foresaw this Winter of Discontent coming from Day 1 of the announcement. I have no issue with this faction of players not liking the game. People like what they like what they like. My issue is their unwillingness to take responsibility for their own experience and cling to this need to see themselves as victims. In some cases acting more like jilted lovers than disaffected customers. But as for me, I fully own this. The game is moving down the path that I hoped it would from Day One. There is work to be done still. But this game plays VASTLY better as an action RPG than it did during the days of Forsaken.
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Yeah but there's the whole thing with the community dumpster fire going on and a lot of the people currently complaining are the people they e tried so hard to please. Maybe not you, but a lot of them are from the space magic group. That sounds like a good name for a giant conglomerate company The Space Magic Group.
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No they aren’t those people. Those people just think they are that important. The people they were actually trying to please are quietly contented. They are either continuing to play, or stepped away and will come back when there is new stuff to do. People who are mad always make more noise than those who are contented.
