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Destiny 2

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Modifié par Rogue : 11/30/2022 1:22:21 AM
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Rogue

From a member of the LGBT+

Please stop painting targets on our backs. I don’t want your writers representing me, it makes me uncomfortable and the only thing it achieves is riling up the worst people in your community and sends them after us with a vengeance. Just. Stop. You aren’t portraying it with any authenticity, care or narrative utility. All you’re achieving is fanning the flames of hatred at a significant cost to people in your own community. Please. Stop. Whatever victory you think you’ve won for us with these stunts, are not at all worth the costs. Edit: a little context. I’m 27, when I was growing up -blam!- was still very much in the process of becoming accepted. Hostility was very high in my teens. Back then, in the early 2000’s, cutscenes like the one Bungie released weren’t really permissible. Whenever creators tried to have gay characters, or curtail a story towards the gay community, it was always met with immediate, overwhelming hostility. Times are different now, but the old hostilities are still there, just a little further beneath the surface. This is very evident when you read the posts and comments on these forums right now. Call it whatever you want, I am just tired of being spoken on behalf of, lumped in with the rest of the LGBT and treated like we all want the same thing. I just want to live my life and be happy, when Bungie does stuff like this, it brings all those hostilities front and centre. You don’t need to take my word for it, it’s all present on the forums right now. By pretending your game is inclusive, you push segments of your community to be exclusive. You galvanise the hostilities that are already there. I’m only speaking from my own perspective, I do not represent the LGBT+, I am but one of millions. I would prefer if events such as this cutscene just didn’t happen, as it isn’t worth the backlash the LGBT+ members in your community face as a direct result.
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  • The fact the writers think we care in this game about shooting space monsters if two dudes like peening each other down is hilarious and shows how out of touch they are with the audience.

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  • It’s very contrived isn’t it. How about they just have same -blam!- attracted people and not have to explain them. They just exist, the end. Everybody love everybody:

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    1 commentaire
    • Yeah, as a member of the lgbt community, it sounds like you still have some internalized -blam!- to work on. I thought the cut scene was beautifully done, and it made me tear up with joy. Thank you Bungie.

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    • You talking about Osiris and Saint-14 relationship that has built up to this for awhile now? I mean yea peoples -blam!- preferences shouldn't be brought up if it isn't adding to the story. However the past couple of seasons were driven by the relationship between Osiris and Saint-14. The question here is does it feel forced? I don't feel like it was. Sadly some people are at the point where any LGBTQ representation is "forced" and "for the message" which with Bungie's track record over the past 3 - 4 years is hard to not see why they feel that way. However it doesn't feel like it is.

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    • Appreciate the honesty and have much respect for it. Have a good one.

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    • of course you're entitled to your opinion and i'm not trying to invalidate it, but it sounds like you would be happy with society pushing you back into the closet. the "worst people in [i]this[/i] community" are now here praising your sentiments. I totally get that you don't want these people spewing vitriol at you, but I wouldn't exactly want them on my side either.

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      18 commentaires
      • r/asablackman anyone?

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        2 commentaires
        • I understand your frustration. But this cut scene is nowhere near painting a target on anyone's back. This is simply an issue of Bungie being a crappy developer and a really bad storyteller. It's the season where nothing is happening, and all content is stale. People are antsy and can't wait for changes to take effect. When everything seems to be going wrong, Bungie puts out a really bad season-ending cut scene. What do you think will happen? Even if it was a hetero couple in the cut scene, it wouldn't have made a difference. It was still a crappy ending to a season. After I watched it, I was like, "That's it?". All the hype and it all boils down to a mere condensation of events that would have made sense to actually portray in the next season. I would have loved to see cut scenes of what Osiris saw and felt about Savathun. I would have loved to see how Mithrax came up with the idea of making a tea and how the threads "spoke" to him. I can go on and on. There was just a lot of information in that cut scene that was condensed into a few minutes. And then there was the kiss. I simply find it laughable that the creative minds that made Destiny couldn't come up with a better ending. This is what everyone's mad about. Well, mostly. They could have not shown the kiss. But because Bungie is so bad at storytelling, they had to get a rise out of some people. And it was effective. You're mad. They're mad. Everyone's mad. With all due respect, please don't make this about you.

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        • You shouldn’t look at it that way. Just live your life man.

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          7 commentaires
          • Is this post about the recent video of osiris and saint kissing? I don’t think many people care about this to be honest. Idk what target you are talking about, the new generation is open minded and soon all the old folks with insecurities are gonna die out. There will always be haters so who cares? Bungie can do whatever they want, I dont see how they are painting a target on your back when no one here even knows who you are.

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            3 commentaires
            • Target on your back... nah. More like a target on Bungie's back and the characters' backs. I don't give a crap if you are gay, live your life, especially if you're in America. But, and this will sound somewhat -blam!-, if the only romances portrayed in a game are primarily gay ones, it makes it challenging for me as a straight person to get behind those stories. Sorry, it just doesn’t make sense and the romance doesn’t seem impactful. To be fair though, this is further compounded by the crappiest season-ending ever. Hopefully, I don't get virtually shot for this, and hopefully, my point gets across.

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              5 commentaires
              • Modifié par Kord : 11/30/2022 11:03:15 PM
                Ah yes, as we all know the best way to deal with bigotry is to pretend the thing the bigots hate doesn't exist so they never have to get their feelings hurt. Grow up. Bungie having a gay couple in their story is not painting a target on your back. All media is not going to cater to your expectations of what LGBTQ+ relationships look like. There is no way to win with haters, if a character is LGBTQ+ and you tell them at the start its pandering and if you don't tell them in the first sentence they assume its a straight character and claim you are changing things later.

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                14 commentaires
                • [quote]Please stop painting targets on our backs. I don’t want your writers representing me, it makes me uncomfortable and the only thing it achieves is riling up the worst people in your community and sends them after us with a vengeance. Just. Stop. You aren’t portraying it with any authenticity, care or narrative utility. All you’re achieving is fanning the flames of hatred at a significant cost to people in your own community. Please. Stop. Whatever victory you think you’ve won for us with these stunts, are not at all worth the costs.[/quote] Painting targets on your backs? Sends them after you with a vengeance? I don’t think you could be more over dramatic if you tried. Literally no one in game or on these forums has any way of knowing what your personal preferences are or aren’t in regards to your partners unless you yourself make it known. So if you choose to make that information public, which you’ve done with this post, then that’s on you and you alone and it literally has nothing to do with what Bungie chooses to do with [i]their[/i] characters. It’s extremely egotistical and narcissistic to think that just because LGBTQ characters are introduced into the game they’re automatically supposed to represent you. That’s like me thinking every single character in every single piece of entertainment that fits my personal preferences and description are written for me. Get a grip lol.

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                  14 commentaires
                  • Modifié par Uncle_Putin : 11/30/2022 5:34:57 AM
                    Rogue, I don't want you or any other gay person to feel like they have a target on their back. Most people today understand on an intellectual level that some people are apparently born attracted to the same -blam!-. So we don't have a problem with live and let live. That's the beauty of a free country. Everyone is free to live their life and pursue happiness as they see fit, within the bounds of the law. But you mention detecting the old hostility which is just below the surface. I actually think you're correct about that and I have a theory as to why that is. I think it's a natural, built-in biological reaction, especially in males. Hear me out. Some would say it's just a matter of parental upbringing, religion, or other cultural consideration. Well, when I was growing up -blam!- (in any form) was considered anathema, the worst thing imaginable, and for most hetero men, the thought or sight of two men kissing was revolting. Yet those same men found the thought or sight of two women kissing as extremely erotic. So despite the fact that their parents, religion, and culture all considered and raised them to see gays and lesbians as two-sides of the same coin, the visceral gut reaction of your average hetero male to each group was 180 degrees opposed. I was once talking to a gay acquaintance and asked him if he had ever been attracted to women at any point, or what was his reaction when seeing a naked female body. He got a look of slight disgust on his face, as if I had just offered him a piece of Limburger cheese. He didn't have to say another word. I instantly understood his reaction, because that is exactly the same reaction I have to seeing the cut-scene that Bungie just dropped on us. It's the natural reaction of most hetero men to seeing other men acting -blam!- toward each other. It's like your parents. We love our parents, we know they have -blam!-, but we don't want to think about it and we sure as hell don't want to see it. So to wrap up, what I'm saying is that the hostility you sense is real, but it's not so much aimed at gay people for being who they are, as it is aimed at the woke activists who insist on cramming stuff into our face 24/7 that we don't really want to see. And it gets worse when these same activists start trying to push it in schools and children's entertainment (like video games), because that is guaranteed to get parents riled up.

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                    5 commentaires
                    • You said at the end you only speak for yourself but the rest you seem to talk for everyone Their relationship was unclear and was going that way for a long time ....anyone with half a brain could have seen it going that way ....And honestly it was done way better than borderlands or other games ever did They kissed? Ok its just a confirmation....won't be a focus or a big thing

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                    • [quote]Bungie please stop making gay characters it’s making the straights mad :([/quote] Look, if the mere existence of something not being heteronormative riles people up that’s their issue. Not Bungie’s lmao.

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                      45 commentaires
                      • In my opinion, the scene isnt an issue, its the Nezcafe thats the issue. I am sure some "dislike the kissing scene" but they need to just get over it. But the whole smokey Nezcafe, naaa the community has every right to be mad......all that build up, for Misdirection Kell to make coffee.....come on, we should have just called it the Season of the Spicy Barista

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                      • Did people just figure out Saint and Osiris were gay..? This has been a thing for like… years

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                        3 commentaires
                        • Modifié par Accola : 12/1/2022 8:13:04 PM
                          [quote]Please stop painting targets on our backs. I don’t want your writers representing me, it makes me uncomfortable and the only thing it achieves is riling up the worst people in your community and sends them after us with a vengeance. Just. Stop.[/quote] Damn, it's almost as if the purpose of representation is to make the inclusion of LGBTQ+ characters not a special thing. It's almost as if it's a very subtle way of reminding hateful fundies that they are the minority, hateful minority. [Quote]You aren’t portraying it with any authenticity, care or narrative utility. All you’re achieving is fanning the flames of hatred at a significant cost to people in your own community.[/quote] How? How is it not authentic? I'm assuming you're talking about the latest cutscenes in which case I'm failing to understand how it isn't authentic. Narrative utility is a dead horse beaten too long and never anything more than a double standard against LGBTQ+ representation. [Quote]By pretending your game is inclusive, you push segments of your community to be exclusive. You galvanise the hostilities that are already there. I’m only speaking from my own perspective, I do not represent the LGBT+, I am but one of millions. I would prefer if events such as this cutscene just didn’t happen, as it isn’t worth the backlash the LGBT+ members in your community face as a direct result.[/quote] This is exactly why progress is stifled and why hateful people still have platforms to stand on, when we push for inclusion and the destigmatization of LGBTQ+ people, some of the same people who are affected by the stigma and by the prejudice advocate for inaction. "If we represent ourselves we'll just make the intolerant people less tolerant so we should just do nothing." No, the intolerant will never be persuaded, but you don't build a tolerant society with those same intolerant people. Representation will never change their minds, all we can do is help the open minded see that we exist, we're just like them, and the social stigma was always wrong, and remind the intolerant that they have no place in our society anymore. Tldr: don't go against your own interests because you don't want to russle the jimmies of societies bottom feeders. Makes no sense.

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                          6 commentaires
                          • Feels ultra weird that your biggest argument is "it paints a target on my back for hostility" and then put all this on the same forum that will provide said hositility. Just because you've been afforded to live how you wish without further change, doesn't mean everyone else can.

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                            • I’m all for multiple types of relationships being shown but there is a clear divide when it comes to lgbt and non lgbt relationships. I’ll probably get hate for it but you can’t show a plethora of one and not the other and expect people to take them seriously. People claim to want equal representation when in reality a lot of them just want favoritism over another group. I’m happy Saint and Osiris got their moment but when it’s like the 15th occurrence it loses impact. The only completely confirmed non-lgbt couple I know of is Zavala and his wife. I know Drifter and Eris are making eyes but that hasn’t led to anything yet. All I’m saying is that there should be examples of everything and not just the ones that get Bungie Political Points so to speak.

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                              • What has always gotten me about gaming lately us why do we need to know the -blam!- and genders of all characters? They are fictional and if someone identified identifies with a character then ok but it doesn't need rammed down our throats. I just wanna play a videogame and not care who is messing with who.

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                                • 3
                                  Honestly I never had problem w gay ppl, never hated them. But if somebody comes and sreams at me, that I need to love this one specific group and hate everybody else without providing some reason, guess what happens... None of sane gay ppl ever wanted to associate themself with LGBT+-:_/, they are just what they are and thats it. Where is some forceful promotion of hetero ppl? Same goes for colors. Why is black promoted and yellow, white, brown isnt?

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                                • Modifié par pValue2010 : 11/30/2022 3:30:45 PM
                                  No romance/-blam!- in a FPS would be my preference if I’m being honest. If they’re going to have romance in a game, though, they shouldn’t make everything exclusively hetero-normative

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                                • I feel like Bungie is irritating me now with this bs. When i turn on Destiny i want to play a game, have fun and relax. But instead Bungie wants to teach me/push me to love and accept the LGBTQ community. I don't have a problem with no one and their -blam!- preferences etc. But to get bs like darkness tea and that robot + man kissing on my screen got me phucked up. I don't want to see someone kissing, phucking or whatever on my screen. I just wanna shoot some stuffs, get gear and weapons +chill with other Guardians. That's it. 🥴

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                                • So… a robot can be gay?

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                                  6 commentaires
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