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Modifié par 123TheCloop :
9/14/2021 10:52:09 PM
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[quote]The easiest way to balance this, would be to make glacier grenade crystals have a brief startup animation, akin to lightening grenades, or axion bolt grenades.
You would throw the glacier grenade, Stasis mist would begin to form around a small area - until spikes shoot out, in its traditional, or enhanced form.[/quote]
personally no, this is a bad idea. at the end of the day glacial nades on warlock and titan are balanced. I dont see why Hunters should force a rework of an already working and balanced nade.
I said it previously to someone else, but shatterdive needs to be tied to melee regen which is inherently tied to strength stat, even at 100 strength your melee cooldown will be around 43 seconds. for shatterdive I think this is fair if you also factor in 100 discpline giving a 53 second cooldown. now there are ways to improve regen on said abilities but this imo is a more balanced approach as your "forcing" a build option that requires some effort to get into a viable state [i]rather than its current form of just slapping on shatterdive and having back to back shatterdives with no penalty. [/i]
the fact in trials I can chain shatterdive back to back within what I believed was a 10 second window is to be frank -blam!- stupid. its literally a stasis version of ballistic slam which is well tied to strength because its a melee and has activation requirements like jumping in the air while sprinting. I dont see why shatterdive isnt "seen" as a melee in terms of regen and activation requirements.
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So make it to were titans can still shater crystals and slide crazy long distances for free but hunters have to tie theirs to a discipline cool down or strength cool down and warlocks can also phinox dive without that as well. I am sorry but that significantly hurts pve for shaterdive and makes it useless. I agree it needs to be nerfed but that is not the nerf to do so
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Modifié par 123TheCloop : 9/16/2021 6:26:23 PMi dont care if you "think it hurts hunters for pve" the entire point of stat distribution is to focus on what "build" you want, if shatterdive has to be tied to melee regen to make it comparable to all other melees then so be it, if you have to speck into melee regen to make shatterdive worth using then welcome to "min-maxing" gear also who even runs shatterdive in pve...... im sorry but ide have to hard disagree on that simply because shatterdive is dog in pve when your giving up a fragment slot and potentially a +10 stat depending on the fragment. shatterdive isnt a pve aspect and shouldnt be, just like titans cryoclasm isnt meant to be a pve aspect. you can use it in pve but it seriously limits build potential when you can run other better aspects together and the same applies to hunters. shatterdive offers nothing tangible in pve when compared to the combo of "grim harvest and touch of winter" and when the new well of shards mod hits well I dont see anyone running shatterdive period come next week.
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Ok so with this change then we make it to were phenix dive is tied to the same stat same with cryoclasm also for reference i have a really good build with shatter dive in pve and i use it for world line skating sorry that you keep dying to it in pvp and so you think it should basically be removed from the game
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sorry but phoenix dive isnt even the same, so dont try and compare the two when one is inherently tied to stasis nades that add to its potency. shatterdive is unilaterally OP and many agree. this isnt a question of "if" but a question of "how and when" it gets adjusted.
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Except it isnt a melee. Its the same as phoenix dive. Phoenix dive heals. Shatterdive shatters. So if 1 needs to tie to strenght so should the other.
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Modifié par 123TheCloop : 9/16/2021 6:31:45 PMPhoenix dive isnt even in the same league as shatterdive..... because you dont have stasis crystals adding to its potency of effect, shatterdive has modifiers applied when it hits crystals to do extra damage. lets not forget that WQ is also going to be adjusting light based subclasses to 3.0 and who knows if Phoenix dive is even staying when they adjust solar subclasses to the "aspect, fragment" system. but its by no means the same in any capacity.
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It is the same. The exact same. Its a dive ability. And one of them does nothing by itself...the other does do something by itself.
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its literally not the same...... shatterdive has modifiers to its damage that apply to glacial nade explosions hence they do more damage than your standard "shoot crystal" explosion. bungie literally proved this back when they nerfed shatterdive originally, has its own damage, own AoE that effectively adds to what glacial nades do. so no its not even remotely the same
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It doesnt add damage to the crystal explosion though. This has been proven over and over. Crystals do the same damage if shot or shatterdived.
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Modifié par 123TheCloop : 9/16/2021 7:00:44 PMyes it does..... shatterdive has its own AoE and damage numbers. that are also effect the gaurdian inside or near the crystals that go off. so when you add shatterdive damage and crystal damage you get a number thats higher than base crystal shatter damage. bungie literally proved this back when they nerfed the radius and damage in the radius of shatterdive lmao. Reduce the potency of Shatter Dive + Whisper of Fissures against Guardians, going live with Update 3.0.2. Shatterdive Now has damage falloff vs. unfrozen targets Max range damage reduced from 50 to 5 Damage reduction during ability reduced from 50% to 25% so sorry but it actually does buff the damage even after the nerf. notice the "specific shatter dive adjustments" if your in the 5m radius then your getting damaged from shatterdive specifically otherwise there wouldnt be damage falloff and max damage. I can shatterdive someone directly in pvp and it will damage them (just not a lot) because most of the damage comes from the nade shattering.
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It got nerfed after that as well though. Shatterdive has 0% damage reduction now and deals 6 damage at all ranges inside its radius. And adding 6 damage is next to nothing. Crystals always deal the same damage no matter what shatters them. People have already tested shooting 1 crystal vs shatterdiving 1 crystal...its the exact same damage + the 6 from shatterdive.
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where are you even getting that from...... shatterdive got nerfed back in January and never got another nerf (not that I can find anyway) so I want a source on this because this is news to me
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Update 3.1.1.1 in march states that shatterdive now has no damage resist and the reduced shatter damage. And it got nerfed even more after that.
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Modifié par 123TheCloop : 9/16/2021 7:39:42 PMwell 3.1.1.1 clearly states: Hunters Shatterdive Removed damage resistance from Shatterdive. Added a 4s cooldown between activations of Shatterdive. nothing even mentioned about shatter damaged reduction for shatterdive in conjuction with with crystals. the only shatter damage reduction was from: Stasis Crystals Reduced crystal shatter damage against players from (85 max, 55min) to (55 max, 25 min). PvE damage is unchanged. (thats per crystal btw)
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Yes. And shatterdive never added damage to crystals. It only shatters them. Which has been proven by litterally everyone testing it.
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actually dont bother with the patch notes. here is a video of me clearly doing 25 damage with shatterdive "only" so shatterdive does damage period. adding to the 85 damage max from a single crystal and you get 6 of them with touch of winter glacial nade, i think thats all I need to prove on that. [spoiler][url]https://streamable.com/9uzs34[/url][/spoiler]
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Sure it does 25 damage on direct impact..but that is a known bug which anyone can do by jumping on someone...but phoenix dive kills on direct impact...so thats a lot more. And the crystals do the same damage on every class.
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Modifié par 123TheCloop : 9/17/2021 5:58:58 PMso after constantly going on about "shatterdive does no damage" and has a 6m radius and people tested it. you got proven wrong on the "shatterdive does no damage" also that video wasnt a direct hit...... that fact is clearly visible. you literally see him walk away and where I land is a good 2m away from him. You also seem to forget the patch notes that clearly state "damage falloff vs unfrozen targets" the reason the "unfrozen targets" is important here is because "frozen targets" take increased damage from energy/heavy and melee sources of damage (this includes shatterdive) not exactly sure on the damage numbers but if a target is frozen then by bungies own patch notes at least a full 25 dmg will be applied through the 5m window of AoE on shatterdive. [quote]And the crystals do the same damage on every class[/quote] and touch of winter gives you a larger crystal area than the base glacial nade and gives you 1 extra crystal....... again combined with shatterdive its greatly more potent. if the max damage of crystal damage is 85+25 min from shatterdive thats 110 damage from a single crystal source+shatterdive vs unfrozen targets, you get 6 crystals to do easily 500+ damage, thats why if your lucky enough you can actually kill a super with touch of winter glacial nade and shatterdive (I did it in trials on one game lol) that isnt a bullshit number btw, each crystal simple does its own damage so you simple add them together as they all go off at the same time upon impact.
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Modifié par 123TheCloop : 9/16/2021 7:43:37 PMshatterdive has its own damage falloff....... so there is clearly damage from shatterdive lol. thats why back in patch 3.0.2 they clearly seperated shatterdive adjustments from whisper of fissure adjustments. If you have the other nerfs to shatterdive past 3.1.1.1 that states they "removed" its damage because bungie dont even list 3.1.1.1 in the normal update section.
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Modifié par KorinWolf : 9/16/2021 6:33:00 PMThey just buffed phenix dive i highly doubt that it will be removed cause it isn’t a weak perk
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Modifié par 123TheCloop : 9/16/2021 6:35:39 PMthey buffed it because the changes are still potentially "6-12 months out" and anything can change in 6-12 months, if they feel phoenix dive is staying or to be removed or maybe changed to suit the changes that follow solar subclass 3.0 changes.
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For science lets say they remove phenix dive. Then cryoclasm and icarus dash need to by tied to the sane stat as shaterdive. Also lets use your logic here “i dont care if it breaks pvp” because i like using it in pve. I also use it for a bunch of my builds that are really good because of shatter dive. I also like to worldline skate with it so i could care less if it breaks in pvp
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cryoclasm has been nerfed to a point its basically trash now, ive rarely seen any titan run it and 9/10 times they run it for the slide not for the crystal shattering effects that are actually less than shatterdive. shatterdive has its own AoE and its own damage numbers that apply with glacial nade shatter, also adding the touch of winter which gives you a better glacial nade which also gives 1 or 2 more crystals to shatter, sorry but not even in the same league. stop trying to compare other abilities to justify shatterdive being "balanced" its not end of. Icarus I would 100% agree with this, but if we go back to what bungie said several weeks ago, they dont like how Warlocks have this "anime style movement" with icarus so I can 100% bet thats not staying come subclass 3.0 changes.
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Modifié par KorinWolf : 9/16/2021 6:57:13 PMOne never said shatterdive wasnt broken I actually said i think it should be nerfed in pvp and not touched in pve Two cryoclasm is still insane in both actives not to the level of shatter dive but you pointed out y because it doesn’t do damage its self and they dont have that touch of winter aspect so I propose a nerf that wont kill it in pve and actually will still make it viable do the arming timer for the touch of winter grenade like the guy says and make it to where shatterdive doesn’t do damage by itself
