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Modifié par WilLiAmElieBran : 10/27/2020 12:53:29 PM
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Is it feasible: What if non-Flawless players never face other flawless players until they go flawless?

Year 3 D1 vet here. Check my play time, (ureded75), its fallen off the map. I've played ONE RUN of the haunted forest, because my give a darn is broken. I adore this game, I have already purchased BL. You can tell im not great, but I play plenty - I feel I represent a huge curve/portion of players in D2. PVP toxicity is clearly a problem. Now only flawless players will get Adept weapons. Obviously, I get it. They earn it. And so dominant players will only get more dominant over average players, as usual. Anyway, I'm a bit despondent. I stomach trials to get 3 wins. But you have to go flawless to get adept? The only chance the majority of us large bell curve average players have is if we don't face other flawless people. It's still going to be hard. But at then a least we would feel we have a snowball's chance in hell of going flawless. Where right now, our only option is a carry, which is about the saddest thing about gaming I can imagine. Thoughts?

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  • Then it would be hell of a waiting for a match for the flawless ppl

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  • Flawless players want to stomp casual players. They don’t really want to face other flawless players. Then they complain it’s too hard like babies. They want easy fodder to get to lighthouse. Why would they want to fight players on their own level? Nope. Flawless players don’t want to actually fight other flawless players. They just want to stomp the casuals. Bungie does this for the flawless players to keep them happy and to help them feel superior in pvp digital world. If flawless players face other flawless players then they cry. Babies. I don’t go into trials or much pvp. Pointless. [b][u]Pvp in d2 is nothing but cheese mechanics that help tryhards who like to abuse them, anyway.[/u][/b] Flawless only want easy kills. If theyre so elitist and the lighthouse is so exclusive why they don’t only fight other flawless. Cause playlist population?! Go cry about the playlist population in trials then, crybaby. They gonna say “I wanna have fun” and “I don’t wanna sweat” meaning they want to stomp casuals. Trials is stupid unless flawless fight flawless only. Also most of those players wearing the flawless title are PAID RECOVS.

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    • Modifié par KlWI : 10/26/2020 5:24:35 PM
      Hmmmmm......The way I see it, the legit good players that will easily get the adept weapons from going Flawless will kill me easily regardless of the weapon they are using, be it an Adept weapon or any other weapon in game because they are just better players than I am. And those that attain Adept weapons from getting people to use their accounts because they themselves aren't good enough to earn them, are still going to be beaten by better players because the gun doesn't instantly turn them into pvp gods. So for me personally, I dont have an issue with better players earning good gear. A better player will outgun/outplay me no matter what they are using. Just my 2 cents 🤷‍♂️

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      • I really dont understand peoples sense of entitlement when it comes to trials. Literally everything else in the game is requirements and rewards. Do this, get this. Do that, get that. Everything. And yet no one complains about that. No one is begging for wishender bow to drop from corrupted strike. No one is asking to be able to get GoS armour to drop from pyramidian strike. No one is asking for an easier version of raids that still drop the same loot. But then we get to trials. All of a sudden you can't accept that if you don't do that then you don't get that. You expect it handed to you. "Im not very good so please take all flawless players out of my matchmaking because its not fair." or "why are only the pvp tryhards allowed to have adept weapons?" And then, lets actually take a look at the actual issue. You can't get flawless, right? So you feel like you're missing out on all sorts of treasures. Wrong. All weapons and armour are obtainable without ever going flawless thanks to the rotational loot system. So, what you're all complaining about is.... yep, a tiny little visual glow on your armour that lasts a whole week. I mean seriously, look at how upset you're getting over a cosmetic feature. Currently that is the only thing exclusive to going to the lighthouse. The only incentive, outside of bragging rights, for going flawless is a glow. Separating the player pool will not work. To separate it you need to offer better incentive to the good players. If you're putting them in a separate league of only good players then they should earn something better than the glow, correct? I mean thats how league tiers work in everything else right? You don't see teams in the English football leagues second division lifting the Premier League trophy when the season finishes. They have a silver painted teacup or something. So you agree there needs to be a better incentive for those players to compete for... good. Only, what happens when some of the bad players now finally get flawless, they've got their glow and they're now in the adult pool not the kiddie one. Once again they won't be able to string 7 wins together to get this new reward. And to the forums they shall flock, just like you have, to complain about unfair matchmaking and how they should be entitled to the rewards because sweats cheat on their nan or whatever other excuse they can muster up. All of a sudden, its deja vu. Then what? At what point will you guys get to before you accept that maybe, juuuuussst maybe, you arent cut out for going legitimate flawless. Trials isn't for everyone, it wasnt designed for everyone, the lighthouse was designed for even less. Stop killing the endgame for everyone else just because you refuse to accept that you are not good enough. This post will likely get reported and taken down because the truth hurts.

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        • That’s not the point of flawless though...

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        • Your worried about Flawless MM Separation but recoveries exist? It will not matter, not one bit because you could be facing the same sweats on different accounts each and every weak even more. I know people want gear but it is Litterally being gatekeeped by sweats playing each other with your money on different accounts. This Shit is insane.

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        • Yeah, problem is you're damned if you do , damned if you don't. If you make matchmaking skill based or based on the number of flawless tickets you have, then you actually encourage account recoveries because bad teams will only be able to match other bad teams. So a god tier team gets on other people's accounts and they literally coast through the matches most of the time. That's really bad for the game. It's like sandbagging in golf. If you don't do that and make matchmaking the way it is now, it sucks for average teams because they constantly get ran over. If it's not fun and they don't get loot from it, people won't do it. Also, the problem is, really good players / teams are going to get even better adept gear and thus be even stronger. That's not good for average / below average players either. Something has to be done to get a larger player base. That's literally the only thing that will increase the number of players in Trials. Well, and cheating and lag-switching have to be removed, too, but that's a whole other topic.

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        • not everyone is supposed to get to the lighthouse. They full on said this back in D1 and that is still the mentality now. As a PvE main, i agree with the sentiment from bungie here. Tired of EVERYONE having access to EVERYTHING just because they showed up.

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          • Yeah lets just split up the crippling trials population even more. That'll totally work :)

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            • So many players have been saying things like this since D1. The best system i can think of is that once a players goes flawless in a week, for the remainder of that week they are matched up against others that went flawless in that week. It resets each week, so everyone’s first run to the lighthouse is consistent and it gets steadily more difficult the more you play. If they did this you could also have a weekly tournament of players continually playing better players to reach the lighthouse the most, which would satiate the streamers need for something exciting for others to watch.

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            • [spoiler]Nope.[/spoiler]

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            • Players should be temporary seperated into “flawless matchmaking” after reaching the lighthouse until reset every week (character specific). Also, light advantage should be turned off but with a light requirement to play along with current season pass being required. These changes would help EVERYONE except the 24/7 tryhards, streamers and recovs.

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            • Trials would not be a problem if paid recoveries were banned. As long as only try hards are in there it will be toxic, but if the 30,000 paid recoveries that have been done were forced to be in there, it would not seem as horrible, because there would be a greater chance of flawless,

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              • Okay im just going to say it, the best pvpers play pvp almost exclusively, you only get out what you put in. If a team of pvpers went into a raid should bungie remove the more challenging mechanics just so they can get the gear at the end? Or should they have to play pve for WAY longer then they want to to LEARN how to win? I despise destiny pvp, i cant quite put my finger on it but, it's just trash. I should not be given an easy path to adept weapons simply because i dont want to play pvp enough to not be trash at it. If sbmm was implemented for trials you have essentially made a system where you have to win 7 consecutive, evenly matched clan matches in order to get the gear, it would now be easier for those of us who dont play crucible to get the rewards that were reserved for the people who put in the time and effort to be good at crucible. Can we all just think about the other side every now and then? You aren't more important then them!

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                • Modifié par Battlepope190 : 10/26/2020 1:20:24 AM
                  I can barely even manage a single win in Trials. I'm always matched against clearly superior opponents in the first round. Playing lfg certainly doesn't help, but c'mon. It's not like I'm terrible at crucitrash either.

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                  • I understand the problem as going flawless is definitely difficult for someone who doesn't main pvp. But that doesn't mean you get to complain about not getting adept weapons. Adept weapons in d1 were used as an incentive to go flawless. They were reserved for those with the skill and teamwork to earn them. At least in my opinion, the best change would be to add 1 or 2 more weekly bounties that reward trials loot, but to keep adept weapons for those that can earn them.

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                  • If they non flawless players are only allow to face each other, the account recoveries would get out of hand. For example, recoveries would have easier games at the start of this but soon more people would resort to recoveries because they're face people way better than them under the guise of a very casual player and cant compete. Next thing you know where are back to having recovs vs recovs because of skill creep yet again.

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                  • [quote]Year 3 D1 vet here. Check my play time, (ureded75), its fallen off the map. I've played ONE RUN of the haunted forest, because my give a darn is broken. I adore this game, I have already purchased BL. You can tell im not great, but I play plenty - I feel I represent a huge curve/portion of players in D2. PVP toxicity is clearly a problem. Now only flawless players will get Adept weapons. Obviously, I get it. They earn it. And so dominant players will only get more dominant over average players, as usual. Anyway, I'm a bit despondent. I stomach trials to get 3 wins. But you have to go flawless to get adept? The only chance the majority of us large bell curve average players have is if we don't face other flawless people. It's still going to be hard. But at then a least we would feel we have a snowball's chance in hell of going flawless. Where right now, our only option is a carry, which is about the saddest thing about gaming I can imagine. Thoughts?[/quote] Thoughts? You do have two other options... Get good Get out Pick one and shut up

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                    • Modifié par an Ape : 10/26/2020 8:13:04 AM
                      I hear rich get richer a lot regarding adept guns. Let's be real. Pre-nerf not forgotten was rich getting richer as in practical noticeable gameplay advantage. Adept weapons have a glow and in next seasons a very small bump in a single stat. Let's be real. +10 or even +20 range on their gun will not make them roll over you. All win conditions considered, those little extra stats arent even a realistic consideration. What it is is rewarding loot. Reward incentive. Reason to do X. A good step to fixing what has been and still is a rather broken playlist on the long-term. After this bungo needs to make the weekly weapon bounties easily enough perpetually farmable so even without winning much the bottom brackets have reason to play in the form of farmable access to the regular trials loot that's not bound to wins. Bottom bracket already has that access, it just needs to be more farmable a bit more easily so it's more worth the time investment and is enough reason to just play. Then up-scaling win rewards, adept guns + flawless loot should be reason to win as much as possible, rewarding top brackets while pulling them out of the bottom ones as much as possible and improving the bottom experience while at it. Everyone has reasons to play, and the reasons really do not hinder each other. And yes, everyone should have reason. It equals a better player experience and from that a bigger player pool, which is needed for a matchmade activity to function properly and for the playlist to not wither away and eventually die because player numbers dropped too low for matchmaking to function in relation to the gamemode. In that spirit splitting matchmaker pools is always a suboptimal idea. To the question in the header. It's not complicated. Bungo had this down in d1. That they still botched it here is the original joke.

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                    • I’m honestly not sure why people would have an issue with this. The trials community seems to be very gatekeeping. It’s just a video game. I’m not very good at PvP, I live rurally and have a rather sub-par internet connection, and prefer to stay out of Trials altogether. I might give it a try sometime if Bungie stabilizes their networks a little bit. I know some of my connection issues are my fault, but certainly not all of them. Anyway, who cares if someone else is running around with a similar gun as you. I wouldn’t expect everyone to go flawless in trials, but for a mode that’s supposed to be “the best of the best”, those same “best” sure seem to have a complex about being matched up with people as good or better than them. As soon as it’s not “fun” for them, it can’t be fun for anyone. Separate pools of flawless vs non-flawless would be nice for people of middling skill levels. Still have to get at least 6 wins without losing to hit the lighthouse. Seeing people with trials gear or weapons tells me absolutely zero about their skill level, to be frank. It could be someone who struggled to get to 3 wins as much as it could be someone who rolled over their matches in the first 45 minutes of the weekend. I forget what my point was.

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                      • I hear you but the game NEEDS endgame aspirational loot.

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                      • How about, for your first flawless card in the week, you are matched against anyone. But, for the rest of your cards, to benefit from matching not just flawless players, you need to have in your fireteam a player who hasn’t gone flawless that week. I think this would satisfy both sides of the community, flawless players can still have an easy time going flawless the first time and then the average player can benefit from the help of these good players.

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                      • While it seems like a good idea on paper, this is something that would probably never work out...mostly because the destiny community would abuse the living shit out of it. Things like good players making new accounts and deleting their cards over and over to "technically" never go flawless, and other various exploits would be rampant, and it would be way to hard for Bungie to actively police these things. Overall neat idea, just wouldn't work out well in practice IMO However I do agree something needs to be changed about trials to make it more rewarding/fun for the majority of the player base. I still think the first change they did was a step backwards rather than fowards for the casual pvper.

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                      • Nah, it shouldn’t be that easy. Based on card wins is right way to go. It’s just unlucky if you face flawless players in your first few games.

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                        • Maybe people with the flawless seal should face people with the flawless seal. Not equipped, just the account having it. That would keep trials more competitive.

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                        • That defeats the purpose of Trials being the competitive PvP mode it is

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