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Destiny 2

Discusión sobre Destiny 2
12/4/2022 5:29:37 AM
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True Nature and Purpose of the Witness (Theory)

Obviously this is just a theory, so share your thoughts below. Nature of the Witness: We know that the Witness is the oldest creature we have seen so far in the game, as it predates Rhulk which predates the Hive as a species which have been alive for like eons. We know that the Witness is not the same as the Winnower, because it and the Darkness are mentioned as seperate entities on numerous occasions. Considering the fact that egregore connects thoughts across space and time, and burning it interacts with the pyramid ships, and people claim to hear whispers coming from the plants, I believe that the Witness is some sort of culmination of egregore. Its a fungus, a hive mind, which is why the Witness has so many faces in the smoke over its head. This is also corroborated by the fact that all official in-game talk about the Witness uses the pronouns "they/them/" which, while it can mean gender neutral, it can also insinuate a plurality of identities in one. By becoming "one" with the egregore, Calus became "one" with the Witness, a disciple within it's fungal network. The Witness is likely the origin of the egregore, which it releases through its smoke to spread across the universe. Purpose of the Witness: Has anyone ever questioned why it is named "The Witness"? We've known since the beginning that the Light gives life (takes death), but also takes memory. The Dark takes life (gives death) and gives memory. Given that the Witness seeks to "drink the Light" and is a "Witness" to something, its easy to speculate that it witnessed something that it wants to forget. Is it really about the Final Shape? Does it really want to whittle the universe down untill nothing is left? Or is it simply trying to forget something from it's past? Perhaps being one with the egregore has made the Witness a witness of all the pain and suffering in the universe and it simply wants to forget all of it. Perhaps it is unable to kill itself because it has been spread so vastly throughout the universe? What did it see? I firmly believe it is trying to forget something, and that the "Final Shape" is just a ruse. That, or the Witness somehow witnessed the birth of the universe and wants the universe to end, and then forget it even existed? That could blend both the "witness" aspect with the "final shape" aspect. Let me know your thoughts!
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  • Luke Smith is Witness

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    • The Witness goes by many names; The Winnower, The Voice in the Darkness, etc. However the one we're going with in-game thanks to Savathun is The Witness. Then there's the opposing entity: We call it The Traveler. Eliksni and Cabal call it a Machine. In opposition to The Winnower, it's also called The Gardener. It has a voice as well (Lore tab for Ghost Shell in Vow of the Disciple) Season of Drifter when we were told about "The Game" that Light and Dark are playing in. The Winnower / Witness believes in power over all, the true Final Shape is Survival of the Fittest, all those who are weaker will perish. "No more Death.... No more Life...." In the end, it basically seeks eradication of all sentient life or perhaps it will gift the last remaining species with immortality as a reward for winning "The game". The Gardener / Traveller seeks Peace through Cooperation. A belief that at some point, everyone can set aside their differences and work in harmony. This is the game they play, a competition of beliefs. However, historically, The Traveller has always lost. The story we play is not the first time this game was played, we're on an unknown amount of restarts and Elsie Bray is the only person alive right now who has an idea on how many times this game was played out. Dark Future lore books from Beyond Light state how one of those games ended: Dark Guardians vs what remained of Light Guardians and our character was not on the Light. Eris was the main "Queen" of Dark Guardians as well. Ikora and Drifter were dead, Mara Sov and Zavala were making one final desperate attack against the Dark Guardians while holding the Traveller captive with the Leviathan after it tried to flee again. During the battle, Mara Sov died from a betrayal by Ana Bray, who was killed by Elsie shortly after. Zavala was overrun and in one final moment, the Traveller sent Elsie back in time to the celebration parade when Cayde-6 was marked the new Hunter Vanguard after killing Taniks. We do not know how often that happened though, and Elsie has been trying to find the right methods to stop it from happening again. Back to The Witness, that's probably their entire point. To witness this game of theirs play out. It's won before, and it probably believes it will win again regardless of how many resets the Traveller makes.

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      • You are giving bungie way too much credit. Just look how the story of the last season ended. Probably something stupid like this too will happen with the Witness

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      • I think it may be the source of the next subclass, based on darkness, decay or poison, symbolized by the egregore taking over the helm as it did the Leviathan [i][b]“BUT a certain Hidden contact, Eris Morn, has informed me that the fungus is similar to a synapse within a nervous system. She claims it is a physical manifestation of the Darkness, like Stasis. But unlike Stasis, it appears to be an "impure" manifestation—her words, not mine.”[/b][/i]

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        • To sell Merch

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        • Editado por WillyT: 12/5/2022 1:37:17 PM
          [quote]This is also corroborated by the fact that all official in-game talk about the Witness uses the pronouns "they/them/" which, while it can mean gender neutral, it can also insinuate a plurality of identities in one[/quote] You're actually dead on with that point -- they/them isn't being used in a gender neutral sense at all here. The Witness is always referred to in the plural by those who know them, including The Witness themselves. For example, the first line spoken by The Witness in the cutscene at the end of Witch Queen's campaign (which also marks the first words we've ever heard directly from them in this sense) is "[b]We[/b] have seen enough." Additionally, the ending cutscene for Shadowkeep can now accurately be seen as our first interaction with The Witness, and it repeatedly refers to itself as "we/us" in those lines. These talks about The Witness, and its goals with The Final Shape, are always very difficult because and extremely small amount is actually known about them. Despite the character being the franchise's true "big bad", its whole identity is shrouded in mystery. I saw you mention the Winnower though, and while The Flower Game holds important details, its important to acknowledge the lack of understanding that comes with that specific lore. Basically, nobody truly knows how accurate the Flower Game is (outside of writers at Bungie). Its not even known if the Winnower or Gardener are actual beings at all. Anyone who says otherwise is doing so baselessly, because there's nothing in game that shows their existence outside of Unveiling's entries. Many people view that whole entry as a metaphor, where the Winnower and Gardener are representative of larger ideas, but aren't actually real forces at play. On the flip side of all this, we also can't say for certain that they don't exist. Again, there's no actual confirmation in game, so we have 0 definite answers leaning one way or another. Its some awesome lore but also brutal to wrap your mind around because of all the uncertainty xD

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          • And I'm sure we'll come up with a way to kill them that doesn't just devolve to us shooting them with regular bullets.

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            • Editado por Hot Tasty Grits: 12/4/2022 10:07:31 PM
              So, the flood ?

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              • My thought was the Witness was like DC Comics Brainiac. A collector of knowledge, beings, places and items. They keep the memory or knowledge while sparing the living from having to endure the pain or suffering of life.

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                • I made a few posts which looked at evidence of the Witness being the sapient/physical representation of the Egregor. I'd like to point out that fungus is a decomposer which relys on death (aka the darkness) to feed and thrive. Also there are a few types of IRL fungi that resembles the Witness. Candlesnuff fungi is one. Then the name Egregor comes from the old testament/Torah. It was the name of an Angle who could effect the thoughts of others. What's interesting is Angle are also referred to as "watchers" which is synonymous with witness.

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                  • Editado por Auronio: 12/4/2022 4:29:45 PM
                    I like your thinking. Though I'm not sure whether the [i]memory [/i]thing does mean the Witness recalls the whole time from the beginning. However I am convinced that both the Witness and the Traveller are [i]just [/i]vicarious agents (self-entitled? or true emissaries?) of the Winnower and the Gardener. Mighty ones, yes, but not to be confused with the Light and the Darkness, powers they [i]only[/i] wield. I always thought it's interesting that the Traveller is always referred to as the great Machine by the Eliksni. Sounding like the Traveller is more like a superpower high-tech AI entity than a real biological being. Whereas the Witness looks more like of biological origin. Anyways. I am 100% sure we won't fight the Witness during Lightfall. We had Savathun and now will have Calus and of course we will defeat both of them. Though Lightfall sounds like [i]something [/i]is happening to the Traveller. If I placed bets I would reckon we met the Witness the earliest in the Final Shape. [i]Whether that's due to Bungie wanting to have more time to roll out the whole story or whether it was more an economical decision to elongate the franchise for another year - not being ready with The Matter in 2024 - we can speculate.[/i] So next year Calus. And 2024 I think we might get revived Savathun as an ally and then part of Eliksni, Caiatl, Savathun and us against the Witness, Xivu Arath and who else (Vex?) they might throw against mankind and its allies. Take care.

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                    • I can’t stop thinking about the end cutscene to the season, that’s the current state of where the story stands

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                      • Editado por hemlock: 12/4/2022 7:30:18 PM
                        He is just there to be the generic bad guy players will turn into a weapon or whatever. It's not that deep.

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                        • The fungus part of the theory makes some sense to me. The witness kinda create the fungus in my belief. Still studying that tho.

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