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Destiny 2

Discusión sobre Destiny 2
Editado por Sol: 7/19/2022 4:19:29 AM
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Sol
Sol

PVP - Would you like to see some of these ideas in Destiny?

Yes

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No

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Some

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-------------------------------------------------------[b]The Short Term[/b]---------------------------------------------------- Game Development takes time, especially for large changes, but I believe these quick fixes can help a ton for the state of PVP. Excuse my ignorance if some of these changes aren't feasible as fast and as easy as I make it seem. 1) [b]Disable Resist in PVP[/b] -This was a problem with Renewal Grasps and is again an issue with Omnioculus. Resist in my opinion does not belong in PVP, at least with it being very easy to get a x4 Resist. 2) [b]Disable Artifact Mods in PVP[/b] -With Season of the Haunted, we have seen how [b]strong [/b] Classy Restoration has been in PVP. To many, these strong artifact mods ruin the nature of PVP. Perhaps Mayhem could be the place to have these strong seasonal mods be available/active to be used. At the very least, have Artifact mods be disabled in Trials, Comp, and Iron Banner. 3) [b]Allow Saint-14 and Lord Saladin to focus weapons that are not in rotation[/b] -Currently, many feel there's no incentive to play Iron Banner or Trials with things like MultiMach and Messenger being unobtainable. Rotating weapons and armor out of the random loot pool makes sense, not doing so would dilute the loot pool making it hard to get what you want. 2 Trials Armor sets and 7 weapons are currently unobtainable. In the short term, it would greatly help players find an incentive if they could at least buy the weapons and armor out of the loot pool through focusing the engrams. 4) [b]Invisibility removed when damaged in PVP[/b] -To be fair, this may be a trickier change to achieve as separating how invis works in PVE and PVP would take time to figure out. Regardless, Invisibility has become very strong ever since the introduction of Void 3.0. With the ability to almost always be invisible, it makes it very easy to flank et cetera et cetera. I don't think how a player becomes invis needs any tweaking and what not, but an easy solution to bring invisibility in line would be to remove the effects of invisibility when damaged by another player. 5) [b]Rotate the Control Playlist with other playlists[/b] -Many feel bored with control being the only consistent playlist. Yes there's other playlists to choose from. A fan favorite from Destiny 1 was how Control, Clash, and Supremacy, rotated among each other every week. With this change, it makes the two other playlists more relevant and reduces the amount of population division when we see Clash come into rotation now, competing with Control's population. I think that's all I have for the short term, now for the long term. -------------------------------------------------------[b]The Long Term [/b]----------------------------------------------------- The ideas/constructive criticism listed here, are definitely changes that would take and expect more time to see happen. Effectively updates to the core essence of PVP. 1) [b]Implement Matchmaking preferences[/b] -Not everyone ever seems to be happy with whatever Matchmaking (MM) system Bungie adds to PVP. Everyone has preferences that don't align with everyone or with Bungie, some want Connection Based Matchmaking (CBMM), others Skill Based Matchmaking (SBMM), or Card Based Matchmaking (CaBMM), et cetera. Instead of introducing and tweaking a "one size" MM system, allow players to choose what kind of MM they would like to see. Normal PVP, Players could choose their own preference. From CBMM or SBMM conditions. With Trials MM, the same can apply along side being allowed to choose from CaBMM and/or excluding themselves from matching from flawless players. With Competitive, its a bit tricky. Many would just want it to be based on Rank(RBMM), while others with pure skill, While I believe both are great choices, setting everyone on just one or the other brings out the draw backs. Having everyone bet set to ONLY SBMM will introduce connection issues, while locking everyone to RBMM will bring in people who purposely keep their rank low to crush lower skilled players. The solution, I believe, would be to allow players to Chose from either or, that being RBMM or SBMM. To clarify, players would be choosing preferences. When choosing a preference, the player will be noticed with a prompt notifying the player that changing MM settings could affect MM times. If MM takes too long, preferences will be widened to hasten MM. Bungie could also have a "Default" MM preference, where Default is Bungie's own preferences. 2) [b]QuickPlay[/b] -Ever Since Destiny 2 first released, I thought the Quickplay Playlist was a good idea. Though unfortunately it was pretty much the only playlist to choose from. Sometimes you just want to hop in crucible and not even think about it, just play whatever the game throws at you. Be it Control, Clash, Supremacy, or any other playlist, all these could be lumped into a "QuickPlay" Playlist. This playlist would be an addition to what we have now. It is not meant to remove playlists from players choice. 3) [b]Ranked/Competitive[/b] -Ever since the introduction of competitive, there's been little incentive to play the playlist. Pinnacle weapons helped but definitely brought more harm than good. So, what to do? -I think the playlist would benefit from being called "Ranked" rather than "Competitive" to further align with how people view the playlist already and for the Matchmaking preferences make more sense in "ranked" environment. -We used to have strike emblems that "Upgrade" the higher nightfall score you get. This would be one incentive to play the playlist. Prestige and showing off cosmetic rewards goes a long way. -Pinnacle weapons were too much for the balance of the sandbox, but just like the ritual weapons we have today, something similar could be implemented. Have a certain weapon tied to each Rank. From Guardian - Legend. e.g Guardian could reward a player a sidearm once the player achieved Guardian 3. Brave 3 rewards an SMG, Heroic 3 rewards a Handcannon, Fabled 3 rewards a sniper, Mythic 3 rewards a pulse rifle, Base Legend rewards a shotgun and Max Legend rewards an adept weapon from the Ranked loot pool. It doesn't have to be in that order but just an example to provide an example. The weapons awarded to players reaching certain ranks can either be curated rolls or they could be random rolls. Having them be random rolls would be preferred though as it would extend the longevity of the grind in the Ranked Playlist, perhaps only updating the loot pool with new weapons every two seasons or once every year. -Target farming the ranked weapons could pose a challenge. Maybe allowing the player to choose what they want to target farm. Or have the weapons drop randomly when completing a ranked match (of course the weapons you've unlocked from reaching certain ranks will drop). -The shader mementos are a great incentive for trials, gambit, and strikes. I believe the same should apply but instead being a memento, its a shader exclusive to only those Ranked weapons. Or the shader can be a reactive "skin" where the amount of kills you get in a single life alters the look of the weapon. Or the shader can alter the look of the weapon depending on your Rank. -all of these ideas are under the assumption that increasing in rank wont be as easy as it is now, artifact mods disabled, etc to try and make it a more gun play focused mode. 4)[b] Aerial Effectiveness[/b] -This has been a real controversial topic ever since its been introduced. I don't believe it belongs in destiny. Not only does it harm PVE but it also does more harm than good in PVP. I understand that the idea of "AE" sounds good and being able to get to 100 perfect accuracy with build crafting is a lucrative idea but it just won't work. Having to build craft into making the game work how it should feels bad. Resilience granting flinch resistance is fine, but having to build into making sure your shots go where you're aim is just overall bad. It lessens the skill gap that exists in destiny. In air shots should go where you're aiming. Sure, it shouldn't be easy so reducing the aim assist/bullet magnetism while in mid air would be the better approach. Rewarding precision should be the goal. 5) [b]Abilities and Gun Play[/b] -I'll be honest, Bungie has done a good job balancing abilities and weapons in the past. The 30th Anniversary meta is evident of that. Weapons Currently feel really nice and not much change needs to be done. Abilities on the other hand, yikes. I believe if Bungie could achieve what they did for the meta during the 30th Anniversary/before WQ, PVP would be at a great state nearly immediately. Balancing is no easy task but Bungie definitely has the talent to do it. With 3.0 subclasses and Bungies philosophy of releasing new things a little too "Hot" is very apparent at the moment. 6) [b]Maps[/b] -Not much to say here as Bungie already came out about their plans for maps. Though, More than 1 new map and 2 reprised maps have to be introduced in one year. One per season would be desirable but granted it's probably too hard to achieve. I do know this, not all maps have to work for every gamemode. For example, disjunction (the brand new map introduced in Season of the Haunted), is a great map for rift, but wayy to big for a rumble match. and its perfectly fine! I believe maps should be tailored to certain modes such as Rift and only tied to those certain modes and excluded from other modes. It's perfectly fine if a map is only meant for a few or one mode. 7) [b]Gamemodes[/b] -A few ideas I have off the top of my head are things like, 12v12 (With curated big maps like D1's combined arms), Guns/Primary weapons only mode, Gun game (Only exotics), and SRL.

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  • Editado por A_mo: 7/20/2022 4:16:35 PM
    I like all the ideas but the ones that stick out the most are the long term quickplay, ranked, and gunplay ideas. I think that just in terms of the way PvP has been organized when it was a choice between quickplay and control that was probably my favorite setup. There's no reason to really get into the differences in matchmaking but people need to be given choices when it comes to the daily modes and those choices should really mean something. Doing something like that would also place some responsibility on the players in terms of making the choice that best fits with what they're trying to get out of PvP. And maybe even help them to gain a better understanding of why people that prefer what they don't prefer what they do. Everyone likes to play in playlists with other people that like to play the game they way they do and that time was probably when I personally felt most like that was possible for me as well as other players that view the game similarly. Something like that could maybe even be combined with your idea about matchmaking preferences. I like all of your ideas about a ranked/competitive mode. I think there's supposed to be a glory rework coming up at some point in the future so I'm just looking forward to how that turns out. I'd like for there to be something that was earnable but, like you said, not so powerful that if someone couldn't get it through playing it would encourage them to do dumb stuff to get it or try to tear down the people that can. I think the sandbox is in a better place overall to maybe have something that was decently powerful though. It would also be perfectly fine to just do a ranked system with nothing but cosmetics an emblems if that meant that the system would be less likely to have as many... not sure what the term would be... "extra considerations?" From what I could tell just from my limited ability to tell things by looking around the internet the gunplay focused period was the best this game has ever been sandbox-wise for a lot of people. Its not that any other period wasn't good or just super horrible, its more that a lot of the periods in this game have had something that I wished could be combined into one and that time was the best combination of the things I like about the game. Of course the abilities were far less but that doesn't mean that there has to be none, it has more to do with the affect of abilities on the overall outcome.

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  • Invis itself needs a radar change, it should ping more frequently when you are making an aggressive play but not ping at all when running away. omni is OP, but the invis breaks as soon as you make an aggressive action, and hunters lack a super strong aggressive gap closing ability like icarus dash or shoulder charge to close distance when apeing. Yet renewal grasps were nerfed (which it should have been) along with stompees (which shouldn’t have) but I think theres some strong things that need to be addressed first on other classes before killing off one of the last few good hunter exotics. Loreley should have been wiped at the start of this update. However it makes no sense that hunter has no good stand your ground options, when other classes have such powerful ones, whilst simultaneously also having the least mobility of any class. What needs a work over is stasis warlock, ridiculous super, stasis turrets have more health than players, chaining freezes and not slows on everything.

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    • Editado por Sol: 7/19/2022 4:20:39 AM
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      I just wanted to share some of my thoughts for PVP and what I'd like to see happen. It's just my thoughts, feel free to disagree (respectfully), add on, or tweak about what's mentioned here. They're numbered by not in order of importance. I hope this is seen by any bungie employee or community managers. I really hope there's no toxicity within this forum post. Any constructive criticism is welcomed. If you have nothing nice to say please keep it to yourself. Only A healthy dialogue and relationship between us the community and Bungie staff will allow for this game to prosper. Please share and upvote if you found some of these to be desirable, it will go a long way.

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    • Your suggestions seem reasonable to me - I agree with most of them. The only thing I’d say is that PvP is VERY low priority for Bungie in D2. Tweaks and adjustments? Possible, but will take time. Major changes? Would love to be proved wrong, but I really don’t see them happening. To me, Crucible is on its last legs. If you’re still enjoying it and just want to see a slightly better version of it, fair enough. If you’re frustrated by it and want to see big changes, I’d say it’s probably best to move on.

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      • Editado por Soupreem: 7/19/2022 4:44:44 AM
        Going to have to shorten things here, since I'm struggling with the character limit. [quote]1) [b]Disable Resist in PVP[/b] [/quote] I'm more in favor of nerfing over outright removing. Like, Stag isn't a problem, nor are the Grasps. It's only Omni, which IMHO needs either the resist axed completely, or the increased uptime axed, and Resist changed to 10% in PvP. And yes, that means I'm in favor of Omni being nerfed in PvE, it's too good to be healthy there, IMHO. [quote]2) [b]Disable Artifact Mods in PVP[/b][/quote] Seconded. Just hard disable anything that's not Champion mods in PvP. [quote]3) [b]Allow Saint-14 and Lord Saladin to focus weapons that are not in rotation[/b][/quote] Please, god, yes. Also, reduce the cost for it. 100 shards, or 300 for the Adept is far, far too much. [quote]4) [b]Invisibility removed when damaged in PVP[/b][/quote] Disagree. Invis is really really weak without Omni (or MAYBE Kephri's Sting). Unless you hard rework all of Nightstalker, or buff invis significantly, I'm disagreeing with it's removal with damage, especially since it (and by extension Omni) are only really an issue with shotguns, and to a lesser extent, snipers being equipped. [quote]5) [b]Rotate the Control Playlist with other playlists[/b][/quote] Ehhhhhhhh, I'd say just have it like most games do it, where you tick modes to play (maybe also maps) and are matched based on that. [quote]1) [b]Implement Matchmaking preferences[/b][/quote] Agree. [quote]2) [b]QuickPlay[/b][/quote] Kinda redundant, since I'd just have it be off of a checklist in terms of what modes you play, so you'd just match into whatever you want for 6s, 3s, etc. [quote]3) [b]Ranked/Competitive[/b][/quote] I disagree somewhat. The problem with Comp as a whole in games is the rewards really need to be cosmetic. Otherwise you get situations like Mountaintop and Recluse, where PvE players are forced into something likely completely out of their element to really be competitive in PvE. So I wouldn't tie anything that's functional to Comp, period. Have some ornaments, a shader, sure, but guns? No. [quote]4)[b] Aerial Effectiveness[/b][/quote] IMHO, the penalty really needs to just be one thing that's tuned by weapon type. Personally, I'd have it be just aim assist, with the scale being based on weapon type (IE, long range precision weapons start off weaker and can't get 100% aim assist in the air, where other weapons like SMGs start at a lesser penalty and can scale up to no penalty). [quote]5) [b]Abilities and Gun Play[/b][/quote] Outside of Restoration, I don't really see it. D2 already has among the longest cooldowns of any game that uses abilities (or similar), and comparing it to most mainstream FPS games, I scratch my head at complaints of spam. Where most Halo games have multiple grenades [i]per gunfight[/i] being thrown, or CoD generally having a lot of grenades flying, especially outside of TDM, or Overwatch considering 30 seconds a long cooldown, being reserved for an outright revival mechanic. Maybe I'm dumb, but I think things that aren't Restoration are mechanically fine, with Sentinel's overshields maybe needing a rework to make stacking them less snowbally. [quote]6) [b]Maps[/b][/quote] I think one per season as a demand is reasonable, although this is considering both new and unvaulted maps. But I think it's more than reasonable to want multiple maps per major expansion, and at least 1 per season. Most other AAA games do this, so having the same standards for Bungie is hardly unreasonable. [quote]7) [b]Gamemodes[/b][/quote] I think the ideas could work, should the spaghetti code allow it lol. Problem with going beyond 6s, though, is that it'd require an overhaul of the networking infrastructure. It's what SHOULD be done, but I don't think it's likely to happen before Final Shape, if at all.

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        • Editado por Saints protégé: 7/19/2022 11:58:54 PM
          Also they need to add ability to join elim games since sbmm doesn't work in elim, afk players ands bots that are usually in my team against 3stacks. Players shouldn't be forced to 1v3 every game when solo queuing.

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