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publicado originalmente en: Matchmaking is Atrocious
Editado por LateMinotaur051: 6/13/2019 3:54:06 PM
18
It's working exactly as intended... Back in late D1 the more skilled players cried about them wanting to "relax and have fun in the crucible, and not have to sweat every game" (aka "remove every hint of SBMM"). And, the streamers cried about their need to have more massacre videos, to impress the tubers. So... Bungie gave them a matchmaking structure that pits the strong against the weak... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-tmzORKTP_s Just so you know, I don't blame the guy who made the video - he is really good. He's simply playing the game as intended. Although, I did feel sorry for the other 11 players.
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  • Pretty hilarious responding a post about comp by talking about quickplay Also hilarious that you somehow think players of all calibers matching each other in social playlists is somehow a problem or isnt the case in every shooter from halo to cod to fortnite but I digress

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  • Editado por LateMinotaur051: 6/13/2019 8:24:51 PM
    [quote]Also hilarious that you somehow think players of all calibers matching each other in social playlists is somehow a problem or isnt the case in every shooter from halo to cod to fortnite but I digress[/quote] Also hilarious that somehow you think weak players matching against players 4-10 times better than themselves in a "social" playlist is fine. But I digress... Not that way in the social playlists in Halo... I don't play COD or Fort, so I wouldn't know. Why not give players the choice with 2 modes to choose from... CB or SB? If one is better, that's where everyone will be, and our opinions would be totally irrelevant.

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  • [quote]Also hilarious that somehow you think weak players matching against players 4-10 times better than themselves in a "social" playlist is fine. But I digress...[/quote]Why is players of tiers matching each other not fine lol? The playlist is by very definition supposed to grab the first available players with no filters. Nothing wrong with that [quote]Not that way in the social playlists in Halo... I don't play COD or Fort, so I wouldn't know.[/quote]Yes it worked the same way in halo, you get on h3 social, non ranked in reach, any playlist other then throwdown in h4 or any non-arena in h4 you get tossed in to play everyone else. [quote]Why not give players the choice with 2 modes to choose from... CB or SB? If one is better, that's where everyone will be, and our opinions would be totally irrelevant.[/quote] 100% that's how halo has it with ranked and social. Ranked for close and even matches and social for chaos Comp is our ranked matches you by glory Quickplay is our social matches everyone together Rumble is sbmm Rotational playlist is sbmm Banner is sbmm Seems like adding sbmm to quickplay would mean those who dont like it LOSE thier ONLY option no? We agree we need options so that cant happen...

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  • In H3 and Reach, you could modify the MM search parameters - you could select either "Connection" - "Skill" - or "No Preference". I always chose "Skill" because I never wanted to play against anyone I had no chance against. Looking at it from the other perspective, why would anyone want to massacre thumbless gradeschoolers? If there's either no way to win or absolutely no challenge, where's the fun in that? [quote]Comp is our ranked matches you by glory Quickplay is our social matches everyone together Rumble is sbmm Rotational playlist is sbmm Banner is sbmm Seems like adding sbmm to quickplay would mean those who dont like it LOSE thier ONLY option no? We agree we need options so that cant happen...[/quote] So... are you saying the good players don't like a challenge? Don't like playing fair? Don't like picking on someone their own size? Now, that would be tragic... But I digress... I'd settle for Bungie changing the name of the fun and innocuous sounding "Quickplay" to.... "The Lion's Den" or "Hamburger Hill" or "Purgatory".

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  • [quote]In H3 and Reach, you could modify the MM search parameters - you could select either "Connection" - "Skill" - or "No Preference". I always chose "Skill" because I never wanted to play against anyone I had no chance against. Looking at it from the other perspective, why would anyone want to massacre thumbless gradeschoolers? If there's either no way to win or absolutely no challenge, where's the fun in that?[/quote]Theres an argument if that search criteria ever did anything but regardless the base playlists match you vs everyone and anyone just like a social non-ranked playlist should. Sbmm in social playlists completely removes all incentive to improve, there is no point in trying to get better when the result is just better opponents where you see absolutely zero self improvement. [quote]So... are you saying the good players don't like a challenge? Don't like playing fair? Don't like picking on someone their own size? Now, that would be tragic...[/quote]"Playing fair" makes zero sense so long as all players deal and take the same amounts of damage. Unless you're inferring that better players gain an overshield or damage boost all matches are fair. Good players sweat and fave the challenge in rumble, banner, comp or the rotational playlist. There MUST be an option for them not to sweat and while qp doesnt garuntee they wont it's a nice option for those who prefer matching players of all tiers and seeing where they [i]truly[/i] fall out globally - not bubble tier matchmaking where everyone gets a 1.0 and everyone is on the same level, that's literally participation trophies. Unless you think there should be tier rewards? Weaker players only get common drops from quickplay, higher tiers get legendary or exotics. Because that's the only way a social playlist should ever have sbmm [quote]But I digress... I'd settle for Bungie changing the name of the fun and innocuous sounding "Quickplay" to.... "The Lion's Den" or "Hamburger Hill" or "Purgatory".[/quote] Or they can leave the name of the playlist as that's exactly what it's doing. Finding you the first possible match, you dont like that theres 4 other playlists for you to run

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  • Editado por LateMinotaur051: 6/17/2019 6:18:16 PM
    [quote]"Playing fair" makes zero sense so long as all players deal and take the same amounts of damage. Unless you're inferring that better players gain an overshield or damage boost all matches are fair. Good players sweat and fave the challenge in rumble, banner, comp or the rotational playlist. There MUST be an option for them not to sweat ..[/quote] A player that is 10x better than you definitely has an advantage in damage given/taken. You die in a blink, while you can never kill the 10x player. You say "The good players "MUST" have an option for them not to sweat"... What option does the bottom half of the skill curve have?

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  • [quote]A player that is 10x better than you definitely has an advantage in damage given/taken. You die in a blink, while you can never kill the 10x player.[/quote]False. A player that is 10× better has exactly the same health and damage as anyone else, it is 100% fair. A weaker player inability to compete is on them - it certainly shouldnt be catered too. [quote]You say "The good players "MUST" have an option for them not to sweat"... What option does the bottom half of the skill curve have?[/quote]Rumble? Low comp? Rotating playlist? Banner? The same chance to match anyone including thier own tiers or lower in quickplay?

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  • [quote]Rumble? Low comp? Rotating playlist? Banner? The same chance to match anyone including thier own tiers or lower in quickplay?[/quote] This must also apply to top tier players, yes?

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  • [quote][quote]Rumble? Low comp? Rotating playlist? Banner? The same chance to match anyone including thier own tiers or lower in quickplay?[/quote] This must also apply to top tier players, yes?[/quote] Not sure what you mean, you referring to the last bit about quickplay? Because if so it absolutely applies, I've matched up vs other sweaty 6 stacks just as much as anyone else searching.

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  • Editado por LateMinotaur051: 6/17/2019 7:35:20 PM
    Your glory rank is the same as mine.... Not sure what that says about you supporting the good player's need to stomp. Going forward... I'll continue to plead for either an SB component in Quickplay or a name change so the noobs and weaker players know what they're in for. I know that I loved 6v6 control and clash in D1. I ended the 3rd year with more than 60K kills account wide, when including all current and deleted characters. I had a 1.2 k/d going into year 3 of D1 and ended D1Y3 with a 1.1. Something changed with matchmaking with the intro of D2 that ruined it for me and nearly everyone in my original clan of old guys. That's why I'm here now.

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  • [quote]Your glory rank is the same as mine.... Not sure what that says about you supporting the good player's need to stomp.[/quote]1. What's that got to do with anything I said? That literally has zero to do with the fact that 4/5 playlist cater to weaker players. Sorry but not every one will do so. 2. I no longer have anything to grind for in comp so??? [quote]Going forward... I'll continue to plead for either an SB component in Quickplay or a name change so the noobs and weaker players know what they're in for.[/quote]Plead all you want, it's for naught, social playlists never had nor should have ANY form of sbmm. They are literally opposites. Weaker players know exactly what they're "in for" - quick matchmaking and games vs all other players. [quote]I know that I loved 6v6 control and clash in D1. I ended the 3rd year with more than 60K kills account wide, when including all current and deleted characters. I had a 1.2 k/d going into year 3 of D1 and ended D1Y3 with a 1.1. Something changed with matchmaking with the intro of D2 that ruined it for me and nearly everyone in my original clan of old guys. That's why I'm here now.[/quote]1. SBMM was implemented in Y2 D1 sneakily to try and evade the anger it would generate with most of the community. It was later discovered and removed after a big forum protest. Y3 D1 already had sbmm removed from its playlists. 2. D2 Y1 had sbmm until warmind - so it's odd you claim to support sbmm then clearly say you didnt like the intro of d2.... Ultimately removing sbmm brought back thousands of players - sbmm has no place in social playlists, they just tried it with cod and that community rebelled and they had to remove it just like this one. If 4/5 playlists or 80% catering to weaker players somehow isnt enough and they need 100% or they quit then good riddance. Its literally like a boxer showing up to a boxing match and demanding all better boxers be disqualified

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  • [quote]Its literally like a boxer showing up to a boxing match and demanding all better boxers be disqualified[/quote] Since you like analogies... It's actually more like a 5'5" junior high basketball player being forced to play against the 7'ers in the NBA, whose demanding players have no empathy. I'd have to see support for the claims of "most", "big forum protest", "Weaker players know exactly what they're in for" (no, they don't), "brought back thousands of players" (while likely pushing out many times more), and on and on and on.

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  • [quote]Since you like analogies... It's actually more like a 5'5" junior high basketball player being forced to play against the 7'ers in the NBA, whose demanding players have no empathy.[/quote]Actually that's false. Because every player has the same health and damage the basketball players are completely even. So my analogy of 2 equally able bodied boxers where 1 somehow thinks everyone with more skill should be disqualified fits while yours does not. [quote]I'd have to see support for the claims of "most", "big forum protest",[/quote]Were you not here during D1? You can ask around or just Google destiny #removesbmm - just like #removeeververse and #removeenhancmentcores there was a storm of protest for a solid month to get rid of sbmm, eventually deej posted about how that's not a way to give feedback but the protests continued until bungie were forced to capitulate. [quote]Weaker players know exactly what they're in for" (no, they don't),[/quote] No? They don't know by searching for a game of pvp theyll be matched with other player searching for a game? Interesting. Never seen this kind of entitlement, you expect that players of lower skill somehow should be rewarded with separate matchmaking from the rest of the population? In social playlists? Hardly. [quote]brought back thousands of players" (while likely pushing out many times more), and on and on and on.[/quote] Check out destiny tracker player numbers. D2 launched with sbmm - after 3 weeks it was nearly dead, coo launched months later and the game died even more. At that time player numbers hovered somewhere in the 200,000s. When warmind dropped it removed sbmm and suddenly the player population exploded to over 800,000.

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  • Editado por LateMinotaur051: 6/18/2019 3:13:21 PM
    [quote]Check out destiny tracker player numbers. D2 launched with sbmm - after 3 weeks it was nearly dead, coo launched months later and the game died even more. At that time player numbers hovered somewhere in the 200,000s. When warmind dropped it removed sbmm and suddenly the player population exploded to over 800,000.[/quote] Had to think about this for a while... It was such a horrible experience (crucible in early D2Y1) that I tried to forget it. So, let's count the ways crucible failed in early D2... 1- Bungie removed 6v6. Low skill players like 6v6 because of the chaos and cover (sheep flock together). Isn't it odd that the only 6v6 now in D2 uses matchmaking that favors high skill... 2- Grenades could only annoy. Even a stick to the face couldn't kill. 3- Shoulder charges became no more effective than a bump in a crowded supermarket. 4- The time to kill for every gun became the same as a water pistol. 5- Which gave us the absolute necessity of team shooting. Getting a kill required concentrated fire. This turned roaming lone wolves of D1 into roaming lone sheep in D2. Did you notice SB/CB was not in the above list? Some of the PvP players came back because of better guns, 6v6 was reintroduced, and the other items in the list were moderated.

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  • [quote]2- Grenades could only annoy. Even a stick to the face couldn't kill. 3- Shoulder charges became no more effective than a bump in a crowded supermarket. 4- The time to kill for every gun became the same as a water pistol. 5- Which gave us the absolute necessity of team shooting. Getting a kill required concentrated fire. This turned roaming lone wolves of D1 into roaming lone sheep in D2.[/quote]And none of this changed with warmind - which is when the players flocked back...sbmm removal did happen with warmind.

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  • [quote]sbmm removal did happen with warmind.[/quote] Nah.. bs How do you know with absolute certainty of when/if SB changed? Let me see the source.

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  • Post where it was acknowledged by bungie: [url=https://www.bungie.net/en/Forum/Post/247350089/0/0][/url]

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  • Sorry for the delay... I was AFK for a few days. But, thanks for digging out a Bungie post. That's the kind of info that's useful - sort of. Bungie is not too straight forward with their information. However, Warmind was the second expansion for Destiny 2, and was released on May 8, 2018. Destiny 2 Update 1.2.3 (in the Bungie post you referenced), to increase the power level cap occurred on Jul 02, 2018. https://segmentnext.com/2018/07/02/destiny-2-update-1-2-3-will-increase-the-power [quote]Bungie said "With the release of Update 1.2.3, we introduced 6v6 Quickplay with a bug that causes skill-matching and potentially connection-matching to fail in that playlist."[/quote] Still, there's no clear answer as to when/if functional SB had ever been in D2 QP. Bungie should indicate in their PvP selection screen which modes use Skill Based matchmaking and which use Connection Based matchmaking, along with a sidebar explaining what those terms mean If that were to happen, I'd never say another word about it.

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