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Editado por Demonceage0:
6/19/2019 10:04:45 PM
61
The state of PvP from the view of a
Alright, iv been stewing on this for a while. I wanted to make sure that I could refine my points so they didn't come off as PvP scrub rage, and I think it got it down. So if you will indulge me for a few minutes, I believe I have a point to make.
PvP in Destiny 2 is in a really crappy place. and the sad part is, it's in a similar place to where it was at the end of Destiny 1, at least from the casual player's viewpoint. PLaying in the crucible requires you to have weapons that not only fall into the meta when it comes to weapon types but also perk rolls and masterwork rolls. For someone who plays Destiny for Several hours a day, that wouldn't be an issue, but for someone who only plays 3-4 days a week for 2-3 hours, it can be extremely frustrating to get gun down by someone who didn't necessarily have greater skill than you, but simply a better weapon. So these players avoid PvP as much as possible, only going in with friends, or for the occasional quest.
And here is where my biggest issue comes in. The exotic quests that have the player do something in PvP. Even worse, the ones that punish you for dying or losing a match. As one of these players who avoids PvP like Taken Captains avoid gunshots, it can ruin someones drive to play Destiny, to see that they have to spend days/weeks/months (yes it took me months to get the thorn quests done) to get even a little headway in these quests. I've had a few friends quit altogether because they had something they wanted, locked behind a wall of an activity they hated.
My solution is as follows. No, I'm not saying "remove weapons like the Recluse", or anything like "Don't allow some perks in PvP". I don't even want to rebalance the meta weapons. I Suggest the addition of alternate quest steps. Instead of having people go into the Crucible to get, say, 300 void kills, let's have an alternate option that lets PvE players get 1000 void hive headshots. Having the alternate option will allow people who don't like PvP to still make meaningful headway towards the quest without the hair pulling frustration, and lets the PvP players do their thing.
It's just a suggestion to help make things a little easier for PvE players, without changing things for the PvE players. Thanks for coming to my Ted talk.
EDIT:
Ok, so iv read a lot of the comments and it seems we have a mixed bag of people.
The pve players who done like pvp and hate it when they are forced to play
The pve players who play pvp when they have to and don't have any real issue
The pvp players who know pvp is busted right now and can see my point
and The pvp sweats who think I'm salty for one reason or another.
OH, and I had The Last Word itself leave some comments in here somewhere. you can guess which group it fell into.
Let me be clear because I don't think my point was translated properly the first time. Im ONLY talking about exotic quests, that's all, and I'm not asking for an easier way to get quests done, I'm asking for a different way to get quests done. Because, like it or not, pvp is broken right now. Between lord of wolves, bygones, jotunn, any number of shotguns, and the rampancy of people seemingly trying to snipe their way into FaZe, PVP is in a really shity place for people who don't play often enough to know or care about the meta get STOMPED. And with most quests punishing you for losing matches or dying, it can take a long time to get these quest steps done. So it easy to understand why some people lament those quests steps, and often just decide to uninstall the game altogether because of it no longer fun. and that's the point I'm trying to make. I will play a game till my fingers fall off if it's fun, but the second I have to do something I don't find fun, I put it off as much as possible, or outright don't play at all. I don't want an easier way to get through a quest, I want a way that lets me have fun. and Crucible isn't fun.
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Skill based matchmaking needs to come back. The pvp experience that Quickplay gives the average player is disgraceful. They are basically just served up for they enjoyment of the game’s best players in a pretty shameless way.
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5 RespuestasWell, as an inverse to this, as a PvP player let me get anarchy voices and that new smg, along with all those catalysts, everything locked behind a raid in PvP or just random open world loot pool. Would that be fair? You don't want to do the 1 out of 9 steps for the exotic that require PvP because you're a Pve player? That's fine with me. If you return the favor and let me get the sick shit I'll never get because I hate raiding. This isn't even me being condescending. Don't like PvP? But want the exotics that call for it? Okay, I get it. But on the other side of that coin let me get those raid exotics outside of raids. Because i don't like those. I'd be down with that. But one without the other is just dumb.
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6 RespuestasNo. I shouldn’t be able to get raid exotics from pvp. What you suggest would require 1k voices be put into the quickplay loot pool. It would only be fair. If you can’t complete a quest, then you can’t complete it. That’s how games work, you have an objective and a set of rules, otherwise they may as well just give everyone everything.
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7 RespuestasIs there meta guns? Hell yeah but you don’t need them to do ok in the crucible! You are wrong there! Secondly most of the guns you refer to are pvp guns so why would they have a pve quest for them? Lastly if bungie did what you say and gave you the opportunity to earn all the pvp guns in pve will I be able to earn let’s say 1000 voices in pvp?
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I'll never acquire about 80% of the quest weapons in the game, simply because I don't want to be forced into playing hour upon hour of PvP. I despise it. I'm no good at it. And it's absolutely not even the slightest bit enjoyable to me. But practically every weapon on the "best weapons in D2" is now locked behind hours of PvP quests.
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I see your point and agree. An option for PvE players would be nice, but Bungie rarely does so. The last one that did was for the Thorn which gave players three options for several steps. However this did include a PvP part for void kills. Quests like these are needed for more exotics. Unfortunately there will be quests that will be mostly PvP. One such example will be the Lumina. That is not only requiring PvP, but Gambit, and you being a fireteam.
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2 RespuestasEvery time I do an exotic quest and then suddenly it says “oh you need to go into the crucible”, I just calmly sit up and take a sip from my drink......THEN DISMANTLE THAT QUEST. After doing this anough times I ended up uninstalling the game and keep watching news updates in the hopes that bungie sorts this turd pile of a game out >< Oh and F.U infusion cores ><
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Editado por Demonceage0: 6/15/2019 1:34:34 AMOk, so iv read a lot of the comments and it seems we have a mixed bag of people. The pve players who done like pvp and hate it when they are forced to play The pve players who play pvp when they have to and don't have any real issue The pvp players who know pvp is busted right now and can see my point and The pvp sweats who think I'm salty for one reason or another. Let me be clear because I don't think my point was translated properly the first time. I'm not asking for an easier way to get quests done, I'm asking for a different way to get quests done. Because, like it or not, pvp is broken right now. Between lord of wolves, bygones, jotunn, any number of shotguns, and the rampancy of people seemingly trying to snipe their way into FaZe, PVP is in a really shity place for people who don't play often enough to know or care about the meta get STOMPED. And with most quests punishing you for losing matches or dying, it can take a long time to get these quest steps done. So it easy to understand why some people lament those quests steps, and often just decide to uninstall the game altogether because of it no longer fun. and that's the point I'm trying to make. I will play a game till my fingers fall off if it's fun, but the second I have to do something I don't find fun, I put it off as much as possible, or outright don't play at all. I don't want an easier way to get through a quest, I want a way that lets me have fun. and Crucible isn't fun.
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I play pvp fairly rarely , usually iron banner or when the gangs on . Or when an exotic quest hits. I love doing the crucible on exotic quests , i usually grind them out solo through the good and the bad and I usually come out enjoying the experience. Why you might ask : it’s different you improve in crucible every time you finish one of these quests. It’s worth it . So no I disagree , pvp has weapons pve has weapons and it’s usually balanced towards pve. In other words we need more pvp based exotics and quests :)
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Well said
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2 RespuestasMy only gripe is that I cant to the pve stuff on one character then swap to another for pvp. I like pve on my warlock and like pvp on my titan. It's a minor thing though so ehh
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1 RespuestaI like having PvP be the only option on some things. Just like PVE is the only way to aquire some drops in game.
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2 RespuestasHello. Wall of text incoming, so just scroll through if you're in haste or not in the mood to read (sorry, no pictures). I'm all for having options and different ways to reach something. This is a game, we shouldn't brawl over things or who is better/haz mad skillz/no scopes like a baws/etc, we should build friendships and healthy relations on things we enjoy together, and, more importantly, hate together:D. This game has issues. Numerous issues. I sincerely see zero reasons why not invent any in-universe exchange, either direct, between players, or proxy "token" system, that mimic real exchange. In case of a former you directly swap rewards, basically you do quests/bounties for "that guy" and he does them for you. In case of a latter, you do activity you enjoy, bring in tokens, exchange them for things you need. That's it. This way PvP players will be able to get PvE rewards without playing PvE (I'm not PvP pro, but no fvcking way I'm going to farm for that Wendigo), and PvE players will be able to get PvP rewards. Or even from within same category - many people hate Gambit and Forges, I like both, I wouldn't mind to help other people farm what they want, because I'll be playing stuff I enjoy. Why not lend a hand to friendly guardians? Some rewards even within same area (PvP or PvE) should have different way of achieving them. If you very good, you'll do it fast, but "skilled" way. If you're not that good, or just prefer mindless pew-pew, then go the other way, and grind stuff the hell out of quest. Redrix's rifles proved bungee can provide two approaches, and elements of some other quests allow provided freedom of choice. I say this not because I'm bad in PvP - never hid that. My skills are abysmal - my k/d is 0.3, I doubt your any worse. I'm not going to blame neither my age (I'm in my foteys:)), nor my "military-incurred" concussion, eyesight problems, fine motor skills (or lack thereof), or the fact for years, if not decades I've been playing games that taught me different behaviour (not to mention my military experience) and I can't change it. I'm bad, that's the whole story, details are irrelevant. Given how broken this game reward system is - I'm kind of burned out. Two examples: - I did over 100 (I honestly stopped counting) Blast Furnace frames alone, and still don't have one I need. I don't blame Forges, at least they are fair - I got the gun every time I forge frame, unlike my next example; - 200 Prime matches, 50+ Reckoning 2/3 runs, Collector's Triumph - no Spare Rations, not just curated, but any. I had to make 35 Reckoning 3 runs to get my first and only Notorious Reaper Chest (it sucks). I guess it's not surprise I'm sort of don't have any motivation to play PvE any more. And mind you - those modes are my favourite! I have over 300 frames forged, and over 650 Gambit matches played. I just see no reason to keep up. Playing PvP is fun (yeah, I'm weird), but there are no rewards I can achieve. Not that I [b][i]must[/i][/b] have some incentive to play, but it's nice to have some. Given that Luna's Howl and Not Froggoten (PLOUGH IT SIDEWAYS, let it stay froggo!:D) now are 150 RPM - type I sincerely enjoy only increases desire to play. Yet I know I'll never get any weapon that requires climbing up in Glory at least with modern system. I just not as good to get there. My highest score was about 440-ish, and it wasn't due to my efforts. :) I mean I was trying, but I'm clearly not top contributor. That's why I think new sniper rifle quest system is superb for people like me. Don't get me wrong, I'm strongly against any form of "participation rewards" - just for being there, as they don't promote anything. I don't mind recurring additional rewards for fulfilling objectives of already completed quests, so if you managed to complete objectives for your second Breakneck - then by all means have another one, but I digress. My W/L ratio is 30%. Meaning grinding those 3500 Glory points will require an awful lot of time. By averaging I'd say about 90 hours. Excluding matchmaking. that's approximately my month playtime. So it will never be an "easy ride" for "easy picking". So if, say, Luna's Howl required 4000 Glory points accumulated, then I'd started the quest. I'd knew sooner or later I'll earn them and it wouldn't be just by sitting at spawn. Honestly, just don't get it - I may be bad, but I'm contributing as much as I can. Even if that's quite the little. tl;dr Despite being that bad in PvP, I have Ace of Spades (and oh boy what was the chase:D), Last Word, and to get the Thorn I have to complete that Savathun Song (burned out faster than I could do that). So if someone like I am was able to do that, I sincerely see no reason why you can't.
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7 RespuestasEditado por Ogma: Destroyer of Worlds: 6/11/2019 1:37:33 AMThey insist on this rigidness to the games detriment. It’s like they want everyone to play everything the game has to offer, and to like it. So they make everything activity specific. It’s like they don’t really understand how or why many people play video games in the first place. The game is suffocatingly rigid. “Well, if you want everything you have to play everything.” No, sorry not sorry, but shut up because that’s asinine. It’s comically absurd and frankly, against actual human nature to expect that of anyone. And in a video game no less. In a piece of entertainment meant to be fun. And in some cases it so obviously makes zero sense I can’t even begin to fathom their mentality. PvP for instance. Giving people individual objectives to complete while competing on a team for example. Makes no sense. Those are two things that are in fundamental opposition of one another. The game will ALWAYS be divisive and the community will ALWAYS be toxic unless they give people more options to play how they want to get what they want and stop trying to force feed the entire experience on everyone. It’s part of what keeps this series in the realm of what it COULD be.
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As a mostly solo player I understand where you’re coming from. However, most exotic quests that require pvp can be completed in about a week if you’re willing to grind it. It’s also likely that the more you grind pvp the better you will get at it and future quests will be much easier.
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2 RespuestasNon rage filled post I'll give you that but what you are asking for i cannot agree with despite my opinion being the unfavorable one. What you are asking for is not only biased to help a certain type of players(pve) but calls for it to be watered down or catered to meet your ability.
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My take on Crucible is to play another PvP game. I would love to play all my fixes in the same game, but Bungie and I dont agree on what a fun and fair experience is.
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4 RespuestasI think the Thorn quest did it right. There were steps to kill class specific guardians or complete nightfalls. It gave an option for people like OP who didn't want to partake in the cruciblé
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2 RespuestasSweet, I'd like 1k voices, anarchy and legend of acrius to be obtainable in pvp. I mean if you could get pvp exotics like last word by just doing pve , i should be able to get izanagi's by just doing pvp right? I'd never leave crucible if this was the case, new content would just be added loot to the crucible, want the new beloved sniper? Screw the menagerie, hop into rumble! Yeah screw quest that reward you by stepping out of your comfort zone, i should get everything only doing what i want!!! #satire
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11 RespuestasAs long as you can agree that there is a way to earn ALL PvE weapons through PvP. It's a two way street.
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I’m not trying to be mean but it does not sound like you are the average casual in pvp, you might be below average. There’s nothing wrong with that, a proper fix would be a very slight buff to sbmm (I still want connection to be preferred because lag sucks)
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Get good.
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I am a casual PvP player. I am not good. I have earned every exotic that requires PvP. I dont use meta guns. I solo que'd Lunas and Recluse. You can do it. Just learn and continuously improve.
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2 RespuestasGood players: I hate pvp becuase it's not a competitive experience Bad players: I hate pvp becuase the good players are too good Only one of these criticisms is valid.
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2 RespuestasI play 2 hours 4-5 days a week. If I am a filthy casual, than why did I get my last word the first week it was up, even after breaking my arm? How did I get thorn first week as well? It’s not about having best guns, it’s about having the drive to improve for the better. Most of the time, Destiny’s PvP is not really meant for fun, but a test of sorts. Although, it can occasionally be a blast. Just go in and don’t worry. Watch videos to improve. I recommend cammycakes or true vanguard. Those guys do live commentaries and explain what they are doing and why. They also have videos on ways to improve. No one immediately improves. It takes time. I get these guns can be hard to acquire, they are a challenge for a reason. I believe in you. It just takes time.
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2 RespuestasIf it took you "months" to get the thorn quest done, you need to evaluate whether or not a shooter is right for you. Its true that it takes lots of time to improve but....months?
