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publicado originalmente en: POWER FANTASY: Not That Simple
Editado por GhostbusterJ: 5/21/2019 10:48:58 PM
4
[quote]...any terminology used in this post is never meant to put one group of players above another. Everyone needs a spot at the table...[/quote] [quote]..In the end, I just mean to say that those who favor Spectacle should realize the game is not just for them...[/quote] How should Player A not expect spectacle in a fantasy loot shooter with aliens, space magic, glowey armor, fictional locations, giant towering enemies, guns that shoot all matter of energy beams and fire, and sci-fi vehicles? The hotness from the last holiday event was a special ornament that gave players glowing deer antlers! Perhaps it is Player B who is looking for that extra triumph where it doesn't exist? Destiny is not Dark Souls. It never will be. Destiny is a casual space fantasy looter shooter no matter how badly hardcore players want it to be their magnum opus of "gun skill" and "strategy" and "gamesense" (whatever the eff that is). This is a game that will never be competitive without a drastic overhaul to balance and dedicated servers [u]to start[/u] and should not be taken seriously. There is endgame for sure, and titles, and other activities that are geared for extra challenge, but that's where it will end. When Destiny 2 launched, it was so short on spectacle (to attempt to make the game competitive for PVP) that players revolted and Bungie had to change it (slower movement, slower power generation, weak powers, weak abilities, etc). Since Forsaken, Bungie throttled power progress and is walking back their promise to "bring other things up and not nail the hot ones down", and players are revolting again.
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  • The disclaimer came from previous rounds of discussion I had with clanmates. I am still thinking of the best labels for these two different flavors of Destiny. The setting of destiny and all of its space opera, multi-alien catastrophe backdrop builds the theme of adversity. You have to take on all of the darkness as the last surviving humans in a single city. The underdog story is a strong part of the Triumph fantasy. But you're not wrong! And that's part of why both flavors exist. The aesthetic of the game and fun-centered events are just like holidays in the real world. There's a lot of levity, but it is in contrast of the adversity that it works. Not in absence of it. Sorry, antlers don't disprove the Triumph built into the game. I'll humor your dark souls analogy. Those games are pretty challenging if you don't strategize. It ends up boiling down to walking in circles, dodging, and then attacking, but it is very punishing. In Dark Souls, cooperative play is a way to alleviate the difficulty. The boss health is adjusted as the host summons others. Destiny is very different from that. Destiny difficulty doesn't scale to players in most cases. The pinnacle PvE content is designed around having the maximum number of players possible. Sure, people will cheese and practice to find ways to solo. But the team element IS part of the game design. I personally find the team element to be the most engaging part of PvE. It can be basic, like just calling out which element of shanks there are, or that you popped a rift or barricade. But working together feels rewarding ONLY when there's a challenge. I know Triumph is supposed to be part of the game... the bungie developers are very clear about this. You should work with teammates to build Super. Infinite heavy is not in their sandbox goals. It's clear as day. The ammo and weapon changes in Forsaken brought Spectacle through increasing how powerful your loadout is. Forsaken also brought Triumph because the new content was balanced around those changes. The big picture of Forsaken was not favoring one over the other. Both were brought up. If dedicated servers never happen, the player always has the option to use a wired connection. When I switched it made a huge difference in consistency and I suggest everyone do the same if possible. Gun skill is working with 140's and 110's on a controller, pacing shots, flicking sniper bullets. Strategy is working with teammates and deciding loadout and class composition. Gamesense is understanding map positioning, disengaging when at a disadvantage and pushing when you're advantaged, never peeking too long down any lane to avoid tunnel vision, I can go on. [b]All this and more are a integral part of the game, even if you scoff at it. [/b]

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  • [quote]Gun skill is working with 140's and 110's on a controller, pacing shots, flicking sniper bullets. Strategy is working with teammates and deciding loadout and class composition. Gamesense is understanding map positioning, disengaging when at a disadvantage and pushing when you're advantaged, never peeking too long down any lane to avoid tunnel vision, I can go on. All this and more are a integral part of the game, even if you scoff at it.[/quote] The only thing I admit to "scoffing at" is anyone who takes this game too seriously. Any time I hear fireteams "executing attack plan Delta" while playing in Comp it makes me cringe. Is that an outlier example? Sure. But it's also happened. Calling out coded strats, demanding perfection, yelling at anyone who screws up... not my definition of fun. Just my opinion. People who tend to play the game in this manner tend to look down on or actively shun anyone they consider "casual", are usually the first to demand people "stop whining and play the game" if that player takes a contrary position, and are usually the players who cry every time they feel Bungie is "dumbing things down". In short, basically the worst people you might come across on LFG. Taking the game WAY too seriously and expecting Bungie to cater only to their stringent demands for "challenge", for "handcore grind", to favor gun skill over powers... it always sounded to me like they're trying to force Destiny into a mold of game that it simply isn't. No, I'm not saying Destiny shouldn't be challenging. Of course it should! This game [i]does[/i] have to appeal to the broadest audience it can, and some gamers want to be punished with difficulty and there is nothing wrong with that. But, making demands like that has led to boring grind like Cores in Infusion, excessive mechanics in Raids to prevent hardcores from soloing/duoing the content and giving us things like keeping balls in the air, standing on multiple plates at once, shooting esoteric symbols at certain times, all while juggling ads and bosses while not dying because there are now limited revive tokens. And that's just the basic raids. Appealing to the Triumph seekers as opposed to the Spectacle seekers leads to less accessible activities, excessive grind where it is not needed, loot drops slowing down to a trickle, and titles that rely on RNG "because they'll hunt for it", none of which is how Destiny was. Once upon a time there was worthwhile grind, raids that scaled in difficulty with worthwhile rewards, more balanced and worthwhile loot, and enough power to feel satisfied. D2 started and swung that way off balance by making content perhaps [i]too[/i] accessible with a lot of top tier loot just given away, and has now swung in the other direction by tightening the reins, adding boring grind, and adding a bunch of content for the hardcore only. Both swings of the pendulum shed players. The reality is that most of the playerbase stays comfortably between A and B with varying degrees, and that's the target that Bungie really should be aiming for. Not too casual, not too hardcore. Gimme explosions and a challenge, give me good loot at a decent clip; don't drop it in my lap and don't make me run the same thing 100 times. We can agree to disagree here. That's perfectly fine to do. :) Just please, for the love of Shaxx, keep Attack Plan Delta on the DL.

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  • Editado por Sm4shFanatic: 5/22/2019 1:01:19 AM
    You're projecting... a lot. None of that came out of my mouth. Who the hell... I dunno. I'm done with the strawman. The OP has me admitting that people fall in between. Nowhere did I say everything should be thrown out in favor of Triumph. I'm just saying both should exist. Literally I agree with most of what you said. And taking something less seriously, then stereotyping people that do, makes you look like an ass. Chill.

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  • See, I do still need new names. Can't call it Triumph because even I am not in favor of some of the ways the triumph system works.

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