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publicado originalmente en: POWER FANTASY: Not That Simple
5/21/2019 2:06:58 PM
11
Save the challenge stuff for raid-level activities The average content is nowhere near enjoyable or rewarding enough to warrant killing the spectacle
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  • Eh, debatable. Chaining supers is really easy in forges, reckoning, etc

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  • So what if it's easy, it's fun and makes the boring content more fun (and in reckoning's case it makes it significantly more enjoyable because of how poorly designed the activity is)

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  • "Fun" you didn't read anything I said, huh. Fun means different things to different people

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  • And the fun of several thousand people is being cut by these nerfs

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  • But several thousand people are gonna have more fun now that there's more challenge and variety. When one exotic is best in class, you don't get to use anything else. There's no point. All I'm saying is that players that enjoy challenge shouldn't be forgotten. Which you continue to perpetuate.

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  • [quote]But several thousand people are gonna have more fun now that there's more challenge and variety. When one exotic is best in class, you don't get to use anything else. There's no point. All I'm saying is that players that enjoy challenge shouldn't be forgotten. Which you continue to perpetuate.[/quote] I’ve enjoyed reading the back and forth, and you’ve made some good points, but here’s where your argument falls apart. You say there are a large swath of players who favor challenge over spectacle. I agree. This nerf doesn’t affect them AT ALL. I say that because if they [i][b]truly[/b][/i] favored challenge, they would never have been using these items in the first place because they make it “too easy.” If these players who claim they like a challenge were using these items, they’re not being honest about how much of a challenge they enjoy. You, as a player, COMPLETELY control how much a challenge you endure by your loadout. So in effect, these nerfs DID cater to this challenge seeking crowd, that never needs catering to because they can do their own challenge scaling based on the worth of their gear.

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  • Here's my updated thought: [b]Arguing that Triumph is fine as is because a player can nerf themselves is similar to arguing that Spectacle is fine as is because you can shoot dregs in patrol with Wardcliff.[/b]

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  • If you watch people on patrol, people do shoot dregs with Wardcliff. All. The. Time. So you’ve actually just reinforced my point. People who want spectacle go out of their way to do so. People who want challenge (generally - I’m sure there are people who do), want it handed to them as opposed to finding it themselves.

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  • What I'm saying is that it would not be Enough Spectacle if that were the only spectacle. The same way that nerfing yourself isn't enough Triumph.

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  • The small part of my argument that is in regard to this idea is Optimization. I agree. Players that want to challenge themselves always have the choice to not use the most powerful weapons. I believe a different part of the Triumph fantasy is a knowledge of the game and using that knowledge to execute difficult challenges. If you're familiar with game theory, this could be interpreted as an increased utility from simply finding a nash equilibrium quickly and accurately. In game theory, dominated strategies are eliminated when you analyze the game. It makes the game "smaller." I want to have a better way to explain this. I'm gonna have to think about it more. But it boils down to Triumph and Optimization. Some players will elect to do these challenges, and even some of those will make it their main way to play. But it is sad if the challenging content is only challenging if you take off the exotics. Challenge and triumph and spectacle intersect something like this: a complex encounter that feels evenly matched, when you learn what to do. That's the best a Triumph player could ask for. Checks all the boxes. I see what you're saying, though. I know this is probably my weakest reply. I'll try and think some more.

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  • Don't act like players are locked out of using other weapons, they can always choose to use other stuff I've rarely used my whisper for this entire DLC, choosing to use other, off meta weapons and I've done fine

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