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Destiny 2

Discusión sobre Destiny 2
Editado por Issa Dead Game: 1/29/2019 9:40:54 AM
71

[Forbes] Yes, 'Destiny 2' Needs To Cater More To Casuals (To Some Extent) Paul Tassi

I found this on my search because I felt slightly alienated in this community. I thought destiny was a game to escape with but it turns out since I have college, a farmers ins-investment firm, and music performances taking up a good chunk of my week.... I am too casual when I log on. In other words I am not welcome here, and neither are any other gamers unless you are willing to play the game 8-10 hours a day everyday of the week. In terms of casuals yes, I completely understand they move to the next shiny thing and ask for dumb things that yes.. before it was actually done. (Like the nerf to shotguns, golden gun, shoulder charge, universal remote, and Hand Cannons in D1- I WAS OUTSPOKEN OF MY HATRED OF THESE ACTIONS AND ANYONE WHO WANTED THESE NERFS CAUSE .... IT RUINED THE BALANCE- THEY NERFED SO MANY THINGS LOL. SADLY, most of the requests came from trials of osiris players- backed by casuals watching their streams.) I also understand that gaming is for all of those interested. When it came to this Forbes article, Paul Tassi did go in depth and disproved lots of notions against casuals. "Yes, 'Destiny 2' Needs To Cater More To Casuals (To Some Extent)" Paul Tassi: https://www.forbes.com/sites/insertcoin/2018/12/13/yes-destiny-2-needs-to-cater-more-to-casuals-to-some-extent/#66069d046306 [b][u]For this forum thread, I wish to know your thoughts about Paul Tassi's approach to the casual players. [/u][/b] Let me make this clear. I really love Destiny and D2 is just warming up to me as I [b][u]JUST GOT IT, SORRY IF MY PLAYTIME ISN'T 1000 HOURS YET. I GOT IT AROUND JAN. [/u][/b] I want this game to succeed and I want this community to succeed as well. I absolutely hate the toxic people here- most of whom are just coming from rage quitting OR are a hardcore player who made an alt account so they can troll. I ask YOUR thoughts on this stuff. Give me a constructive answer- or else you will be disrupting my DISCUSSION. A discussion and thread about this topic is meant so I can see other people's sides and views and I can learn more about this community as a lot changed in the 4 years I was here. Thank you all for your responses in advance. Sorry if I cannot get to all of you. LET ME SAY THIS AGAIN. Every type of gamer is important to me- and in a game like this- our goal should be as a community to make it as fun as possible. Look at the population in destiny tracker. A community can make or break this game. Bungie is also a big factor.... but we as a community can make an environment even they can't truly ruin! [spoiler]IF I see any disruption, name calling, and anything that does not contribute to benefit this place as a whole I shall mute and report you. [/spoiler] [spoiler]Great responses so far!![/spoiler] [b][u]EDIT 1[/u][/b] I love all these responses so far and it is a priviledge to see other Points of View on this matter. Thank you all!!!

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  • Editado por juppshepard911: 1/31/2019 1:13:34 AM
    Well they should cater all. I understand that all the kids and unemployed people have the time to play 8 hours a day but also there are people with a real life who could just afford to play a few hours per week. One major Problem will always be that pve and pvp are not clearly seperated. The toxic enviroment in these forums between this two very different player bases is a huge problem. For pvp and hardcore players the game can not be difficult enough on the other hand for some casuals it is already too hard. It is a thin line bungie has to cater. In my opinion a lot problems could be solved in clear seperated pve and pvp content. No nerfs would cause negative effects on pve. People play for loot so shut down the crappy rng system. Give more quest related but guaranteed loot. Also give more difficulty level options to the pve content. Why the endgame is only possible for max. Or nearly max. Light chars. Give more choices of difficulty like that you serve the hardcore and the casual base. Bye the way sorry for my crappy english. It is not my mother language.

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    • Bungie should stop trying to reinvent the wheel with everything they do and learn from other games that have already solved these issues, like MMO games. Those manage to cater to all kinds of players.

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      • I remember that article. Agree with it on almost every point. “Casuals” were like last on the list of reasons D2 launched straight into the ground like a -blam!-in’ dart. Frankly, Destiny needs to cater to [i]every[/i] type of player. No exceptions. And yeah, that’s an incredibly complex problem to solve, but it’s also Bungie’s job to do so. That’s what they get paid to do.

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        • Editado por error37: 1/29/2019 4:01:08 PM
          Casual players require content though and in the last year of Destiny 2's life cycle real content is simply not part of the plan for Bungie. The hardcore players just want some goals, and apparently check list content that just puts arbitrary numbers in front of the same old content (kill 500 of this, clear the raid 28 times while walking backwards, play 6000 crucible matches on a NES-controller) is more than enough for the hardcore crowd. The last word quest today will be the exact same bs, just as the dorn quest in March or all other weapon quests to keep players busy. That's also why the hardcore players are the ones advocating for the infusion cores to stay, they just like this artificial bounty type content. They just need someone to throw the stick, so they can go chase it. Bungie realized that it's way cheaper to cater to this crowd which also has the benefit of getting free PR from the streamers so they can stream their raid clears for the millionth time. I'm sure they will try to offer something for the more casual players again, but not before Destiny 3. And anyone without the anal pass is pretty much f'ed right now anyway, as they'll just get a whole lot of nothing.

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        • Editado por Organic Machine: 1/29/2019 7:43:27 PM
          The only thing they need to cater to is players having options. People want to be able to play the activities they like to earn loot. The game is incredibly and unnecessarily rigid. Options hurt no one. If people want to raid all day every day to progress or earn something, why shouldn’t they be able to? If people want to grind the crucible all day everyday to progress or earn something, why shouldn’t they be able to? If people want to run around in the public area in this game that touted the fact that it’s a “shared world” to progress or earn something, why shouldn’t they be able to? People. Want. Options. They have since D1. Please, open the game up.

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          • Yeah, reminds me of why I quit D1 in the first place, the rise in overly sweaty, tryhard players who couldn't bear the thought of actually having fun in a game. Left during TTK because I had the bad lick of never being on when the nicer players were, so no team would run the raid with me, in the first week no less, even when I knew what to do. A game should be fun, not cater entirely to players who literally only play this all day everyday. I could have fun as a solo player in D1, even in lfg, not so much with D2.

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          • First off, I love Paul's Destiny write-ups; we see eye-to-eye on most stuff, which is refreshing given that he plays much more than I do. Secondly, yes, Destiny needs to embrace casuals. Why? Because they "fill out the cracks" that you'd see all over the place if only hardcore players remained (certain places in the game would feel incredibly empty if more casual players weren't exploring them). The thing is, as Paul points out, a lot of the game that's geared towards more "hardcore" players is either unnecessary (continually increasing necessary light level), irritating to much of the player base (enhancement cores) or controversial (forges, raid gameplay mechanics, etc.). It'd be one thing if most of the community agreed on these things, but they don't, so clearly just "appealing to hardcore play-styles" isn't working. If Destiny is going to thrive, they have to embrace more casual players, because those are the ones that make the difference between a game with a cult following and a smash hit. Not every play has to take part in every activity (I still don't really raid much because I don't have enough time in one sitting, but I do most everything else PvE), but there needs to be both enough content for all levels of player, and enough reason to play said content. Hell, I'd like to see content (in some form) where players of all light level could engage in meaningful activities with each other (and no, I don't mean Crucible). I'd love to help out lower-light, less-experienced players with more content.

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            • I used to be "hardcore"... But now I'm more "semi-casual" [b]BECAUSE OF D2[/b]. I've seen quite a lot of people echoing the same sentiment... People complain non-stop about Crucible and matchmaking in general... Do you know why it's happening? Reduced player base. That's because it's mostly those "hardcores" left. Now imagine for a second that all those "casuals" stopped playing and don't buy into the franchise ever again. Sales tank. The player base continues to decline. The serial whingers only whinge more... But neglect to recognize that they are partially responsible for "casuals" leaving the game because when the "casuals" ask for something they don't agree with, it's stupid and Bungie shouldn't cater to "casuals". Enhancement cores are a Prime example of this in action right now. There's an old saying... And I believe it's as true now as it ever was... Bungie and the "hardcores" are cutting their own nose off to spite their face. There has to be a balance, otherwise you're alienating a sizeable portion of revenue and community.

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              • To be honest I think a lot of it comes to to buyers responsibility. Not every game is meant for everyone and not every game is a huge time sink. These are factors you should consider before a purchase, not after. I really don't get this mentality of buying something that is established as what it is, then complaining it isn't something else, just because you bought it. People need to stop buying games because of others and making up their own mind.

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                • Found you :)

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                  • [quote]I found this on my search because I felt slightly alienated in this community. I thought destiny was a game to escape with but it turns out since I have college, a farmers ins-investment firm, and music performances taking up a good chunk of my week.... I am too casual when I log on. In other words I am not welcome here, and neither are any other gamers unless you are willing to play the game 8-10 hours a day everyday of the week. In terms of casuals yes, I completely understand they move to the next shiny thing and ask for dumb things that yes.. before it was actually done. (Like the nerf to shotguns, golden gun, shoulder charge, universal remote, and Hand Cannons in D1- I WAS OUTSPOKEN OF MY HATRED OF THESE ACTIONS AND ANYONE WHO WANTED THESE NERFS CAUSE .... IT RUINED THE BALANCE- THEY NERFED SO MANY THINGS LOL. SADLY, most of the requests came from trials of osiris players- backed by casuals watching their streams.) I also understand that gaming is for all of those interested. When it came to this Forbes article, Paul Tassi did go in depth and disproved lots of notions against casuals. "Yes, 'Destiny 2' Needs To Cater More To Casuals (To Some Extent)" Paul Tassi: https://www.forbes.com/sites/insertcoin/2018/12/13/yes-destiny-2-needs-to-cater-more-to-casuals-to-some-extent/#66069d046306 [b][u]For this forum thread, I wish to know your thoughts about Paul Tassi's approach to the casual players. [/u][/b] Let me make this clear. I really love Destiny and D2 is just warming up to me as I [b][u]JUST GOT IT, SORRY IF MY PLAYTIME ISN'T 1000 HOURS YET. I GOT IT AROUND JAN. [/u][/b] I want this game to succeed and I want this community to succeed as well. I absolutely hate the toxic people here- most of whom are just coming from rage quitting OR are a hardcore player who made an alt account so they can troll. I ask YOUR thoughts on this stuff. Give me a constructive answer- or else you will be disrupting my DISCUSSION. A discussion and thread about this topic is meant so I can see other people's sides and views and I can learn more about this community as a lot changed in the 4 years I was here. Thank you all for your responses in advance. Sorry if I cannot get to all of you. LET ME SAY THIS AGAIN. Every type of gamer is important to me- and in a game like this- our goal should be as a community to make it as fun as possible. Look at the population in destiny tracker. A community can make or break this game. Bungie is also a big factor.... but we as a community can make an environment even they can't truly ruin! [spoiler]IF I see any disruption, name calling, and anything that does not contribute to benefit this place as a whole I shall mute and report you. [/spoiler] [spoiler]Great responses so far!![/spoiler] [b][u]EDIT 1[/u][/b] I love all these responses so far and it is a priviledge to see other Points of View on this matter. Thank you all!!![/quote] Paul tassin is the biggest fanboy of destiny when it comes to writing bout it . That's all

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                    • Editado por Matt_AsA_Hatter: 1/29/2019 6:54:47 PM
                      [b]They need to focus on how to make a profitable game. The more money a game makes, the better staff they can employ and is attracted to work for them. It will provide the best chances of a best result.[/b] Focusing on that actual business reality about producing a game for 'us' their consumers. The next question is how do we invest into games. IE who is paying money to play games, look at the demographic of gamers (focusing on the market of interest) and even furthermore what is their investment level VS play time. As a gamer we look at this from a content perspective: How many hours of joy am I getting, for how much money?? With only expansion releases we can get the most play time for our money. Dollars spent / Time spent = Cost over time. For me I'm at a bit over 700 hours for my $70 investment puts me at $0.10 / hour. Cap's the developers out with a value per player and no way to increase their earnings from us. Looking at the micro transactions that are taking over the gaming community could be the future of Destiny. Examining Fortnite as the prime example of how to make money and build both sides of the community. That's the easiest way to see that correlation between hours invested and money invested. As players are willing to spend more time, they are also ultimately willing to spend more money. There is some type of value relation between those two values that needs to be better understood. I doubt it's actually linear, but let's assume for simplicity that it is. We can then say that for each 'hardcore (H)' gamer there exists a number of 'causal (C)' gamers that would need to be within the community to account for their loss of funds. IE: (H = ? x C) This only works with giving the community enough things for them to willingly spend money on. When you limit the purchasing options you prevent players from giving you potential money during the time when they are investing the most time within the game. [b]But ultimately: total playtime x playerbase = possible profits.[/b] Gotta focus on a bit of everything if you want all the $$. Apologies for my thoughts getting scattered, keep answering calls at work and losing my place.

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                    • I can see where your coming from, destiny is a very demanding game to play but.... that’s what it should be. Destiny 2 originally attempted to cater to casuals and it was a mistake that forced them to kill cayde to save their game.

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                      • I only have between 2-3 hours a day if I play every day. I have no problem with the game, accept the cost of cores, 4 to infuse an exotic is too much it should be 1 per infusion or something, never 4. I love Destiny but I was dying for warmind to come out because the content felt so bland. Im not saying casuals are bad for the game. But catering too much to an audience that will only play the campaign and then move on to the next game the following month is not a good idea. The intention should be to get players hooked, figure out what hooked them and improve on, wich in a lot of ways they haved

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                        • I think that the casual part of destiny needs to have a place. And it does more than D1, with patrols, strikes, and even nightfalls are much easier. (Also id like to say it doesn’t take that much to get much in D2. 8-10 hours a day is way too long for most. It’s easy to get to max light playing maybe 1 hour each day during the weekdays and a little more on the weekends). Even public events and forges are match made and quick. But then there’s raids. Which have some cool stuff and personally my favorite part of Destiny. These are endgame activities meant for a group of experienced players willing to invest time and energy. Even guided games and lfg have helped. Setting aside a few hours on the weekday in the morning would easily work for learning a raid. And from there raids take maybe 1 hour and 30 minutes max with an experienced team. Now I understand it sounds like a lot, but you don’t have to do these things. There are tons of things to do instead of raids to get to max. Plus, the random rolls help the hardcore players keep occupied. Now a regular player might think, “Oh cool a shotgun”, but a hardcore player goes, “Oh good another curated threat level to put on my third character”. Honestly I think 90% of the activists in the game, a casual can accomplish between seasons. Raids would be the only exception and maybe lunas howl/ not forgotten. Don’t pretend like it’s impossible. I personally would like more quests for exotics or cool stuff that’s harder and takes time. I honestly think it’s a good balance right now. And don’t bring up the bull crap arguement of, “Well I paid for it so I should be able to have it”. No. That’s bull crap. That’s not how video games work, their not gonna give everything away for free. A good example, D2 year 1. It was terrible. Everything was absolutely easy and required no thought. Exotics dropped like candy. Raid was easy and even if you completed prestige, all you got was some stupid chroma things. Warmind changed things a lot. For the good and now it’s at more of a balance. Hardcore people can still get their god rolled versions of everything and grind raids. Casuals can go through once or twice, and be happy with a hip fire snapshot blast furnace. Hardcore people can keep grinding for their 1000 wishes, and casuals can go, “Man this armor set looks pretty cool”. You can’t get everything. There are types of difficulty. Did people complain when they couldn’t get their name on the high score board? Did they complain, “HEY I PAID THAT QUARTER I DESERVE TO BE ON THAT LEADERBOARD AND BE TELEPORTED TO THE FINAL BOSS FIGHT!” No. Stop. I’m sorry, but it’s a looter shooter that’s how it works and that excuse just doesn’t work.

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                          • I'm a casual player. I have a full time job & a family. On a good day, during the work week, I can play a couple of hours any given night, and a bit more on weekends. I do belong to a clan, but play solo most of the time. I don't feel alienated whatsoever. I don't ask for any nerfs. In fact, I'm totally opposed to them. I do, however, think Bungie went from one extreme to another with the extensive grinding involved now, which to me makes this game very monotonous & boring. I was excited to see mention of PVP-only nerfs moving forward, which will make PVE players happy.

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                          • More than anything, Bungie needs to remove barriers that hurt casuals but hardcore players can afford to ignore (cores).

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                            • How doesn't it cater to everyone ? There is no rush to get things done . Content doesn't disappear, quests don't get removed . There are much longer and grindy games out there but yet I hear no out cry from there communities for change . And honestly I would never read a Forbes article about video games and take it seriously .

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                            • Paul Tassi also wrote an article speculating if Thorn would be a BA exotic, after the trailer for Last Word was released last night. So he's clearly not all that into Destiny.

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                            • It's just a click baitey title, not a single person who writes any of this even defines the definition of a casual so the point makes no sense. There is something for everyone in this game weather you play 3 or 30 hours a week, mileage will vary based on the amount of hours but the game is pretty friendly to new players.

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                            • I really don't get the casuals complaint. There is so much content that can be played casually. One big example are Triumphs. If I just want to relax and play solo I will complete Triumphs. It is both relaxing and gives me a sense of accomplishment. Plus, if you are a casual, why would it matter how fast you rank up or how fast you get weapons? Regarding Destiny Tracker, wasn't that shut down during the vanilla D2 when weapons were being handed out like candy and the player base quickly ranked up and lost interest?

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                            • You ever wonder if those nerfs for the sake of trials players and the casual watcher are seen as an opportunity by Activision to entice people to buy more copies of the game? Just a thought.

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                            • If you not playing other games you can play too 8-10 hours. The only type of gamer is the one with commitment and dedication. The rest are pleasants/casuals. If you dont want to invest time in destiny(not just you but everyone in the same state as you) then dont. The game will be better without casuals saying nerf this and that. But if you like this game then you must leave something else for destiny. For me thank god im an antisocial, rarely go out. In the first two weeks of forsaken i barely had 48 hours completion of sleep. Its not our fault that every casual gets left behind nor bungies.

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                              • Many players have too great of expectations. They think every activity type needs to suit their play style when it's the different activity types that are meant to accommodate a variety of players and styles.

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                              • eh its whatever i usually find my way through things competitive or not

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                              • [quote]I found this on my search because I felt slightly alienated in this community. I thought destiny was a game to escape with but it turns out since I have college, a farmers ins-investment firm, and music performances taking up a good chunk of my week.... I am too casual when I log on. In other words I am not welcome here, and neither are any other gamers unless you are willing to play the game 8-10 hours a day everyday of the week. In terms of casuals yes, I completely understand they move to the next shiny thing and ask for dumb things that yes.. before it was actually done. (Like the nerf to shotguns, golden gun, shoulder charge, universal remote, and Hand Cannons in D1- I WAS OUTSPOKEN OF MY HATRED OF THESE ACTIONS AND ANYONE WHO WANTED THESE NERFS CAUSE .... IT RUINED THE BALANCE- THEY NERFED SO MANY THINGS LOL. SADLY, most of the requests came from trials of osiris players- backed by casuals watching their streams.) I also understand that gaming is for all of those interested. When it came to this Forbes article, Paul Tassi did go in depth and disproved lots of notions against casuals. "Yes, 'Destiny 2' Needs To Cater More To Casuals (To Some Extent)" Paul Tassi: https://www.forbes.com/sites/insertcoin/2018/12/13/yes-destiny-2-needs-to-cater-more-to-casuals-to-some-extent/#66069d046306 [b][u]For this forum thread, I wish to know your thoughts about Paul Tassi's approach to the casual players. [/u][/b] Let me make this clear. I really love Destiny and D2 is just warming up to me as I [b][u]JUST GOT IT, SORRY IF MY PLAYTIME ISN'T 1000 HOURS YET. I GOT IT AROUND JAN. [/u][/b] I want this game to succeed and I want this community to succeed as well. I absolutely hate the toxic people here- most of whom are just coming from rage quitting OR are a hardcore player who made an alt account so they can troll. I ask YOUR thoughts on this stuff. Give me a constructive answer- or else you will be disrupting my DISCUSSION. A discussion and thread about this topic is meant so I can see other people's sides and views and I can learn more about this community as a lot changed in the 4 years I was here. Thank you all for your responses in advance. Sorry if I cannot get to all of you. LET ME SAY THIS AGAIN. Every type of gamer is important to me- and in a game like this- our goal should be as a community to make it as fun as possible. Look at the population in destiny tracker. A community can make or break this game. Bungie is also a big factor.... but we as a community can make an environment even they can't truly ruin! [spoiler]IF I see any disruption, name calling, and anything that does not contribute to benefit this place as a whole I shall mute and report you. [/spoiler] [spoiler]Great responses so far!![/spoiler] [b][u]EDIT 1[/u][/b] I love all these responses so far and it is a priviledge to see other Points of View on this matter. Thank you all!!![/quote] Seems you have a lot on your plate as do many.Not sure what the problems is,the game can be ran solo up to a point but then that's were your clan comes in or lfg.Let's say I have some free time this evening,I would ask my clan anyone want to raid.A few would say sure then maybe lfg the rest or if no one is up to it just look a lfg and try and find a group.The tools are in place,you just need to make the effort.

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