Those two guns were made for close range and they currently can't compete at the ranges ment for them. I would also not like to get outgunned at close range by pulse rifles when I play crucible Edit: after playing with a 360 and 450 auto I noticed that they are more for mid-long range than close range and they are good but they do need more forgiving body to headshot ttk. Same thing goes for the other autos and smgs