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publicado originalmente en: Do You Support Citizens United?
1/22/2016 5:11:37 PM
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Let's take a moment to examine the word "corporations". It is not, as many believe, solely a matter of a large and powerful business. Any person or persons can "incorporate" themselves and focus on a goal. That goal can be business, can be a social issue, can be a community focused on a group of or a single issue. Code Pink is a incorporated. So is the NRA. Organized labor are incorporated. So are the NAACP, churches, dairy farmers, news organizations, political parties, and any group that does any public/private advocacy. A corporation is simply a group of people combining their efforts, resources, voices and yes, their money in order to support or encourage a specific result. The First Amendment of the US Constitution protects the right of people to assemble and the right of people to freely associate as individuals or in groups is widely recognized in most modern societies. A corporation is both "a thing", but it is also a group of people. It is not some faceless fanged, drooling, inhuman monster dedicated to ruining society. Since the individual rights of people to speak their minds on social and political matters can not be restricted, the right and ability of people to join together and speak as one voice is also protected.
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  • He wasn't criticising the ability of groups/corps to gather and voice themselves. He was criticising their ability to spend more money on politics than they would if they couldn't collectively.

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  • He wasn't criticising the ability of groups/corps to gather and voice themselves. He was criticising their ability to make spend more money on politics than they would if they couldn't collectively.

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  • [quote]Let's take a moment to examine the word "corporations". It is not, as many believe, solely a matter of a large and powerful business. Any person or persons can "incorporate" themselves and focus on a goal. That goal can be business, can be a social issue, can be a community focused on a group of or a single issue. Code Pink is a incorporated. So is the NRA. Organized labor are incorporated. So are the NAACP, churches, dairy farmers, news organizations, political parties, and any group that does any public/private advocacy. A corporation is simply a group of people combining their efforts, resources, voices and yes, their money in order to support or encourage a specific result. The First Amendment of the US Constitution protects the right of people to assemble and the right of people to freely associate as individuals or in groups is widely recognized in most modern societies. A corporation is both "a thing", but it is also a group of people. It is not some faceless fanged, drooling, inhuman monster dedicated to ruining society. Since the individual rights of people to speak their minds on social and political matters can not be restricted, the right and ability of people to join together and speak as one voice is also protected.[/quote] I always enjoy seeing you making an appearance. However, isn't a corporation, by its definition, "an independent legal entity owned by shareholders"? I also seemed to note a difference in American english regarding the term which is almost universally recognized as "a large business". As said [url=http://smallbusiness.chron.com/labor-unions-incorporated-12768.html]here[/url]: [quote]No Articles of Incorporation A labor union is not a business, it is tax exempt and files no articles of incorporation with the state or federal government. This is an organization created and operated by employees who have the power to decertify the union with majority vote at will. A labor union has the right to collect dues for each member to pay for operational costs, but this collection does not constitute revenue for business purposes. According to the NLRB's website at publication, 20 states have passed laws allowing new employees to decide whether join a labor union when accepting a job where a labor union exists. These states are mostly in the South and Midwest, including Florida, Louisiana and Kansas.[/quote] I'm not disputing the use of "incorporation", I'm disputing the fact that all of these of these Super PACs have been able to legally bribe politicians and government officials with money. [url=http://smallbusiness.chron.com/differences-between-incorporation-corporation-nonprofit-60214.html]This[/url] lists the differences between corporations, incorporation, and nonprofit organizations. The NRA is a nonprofit organization, as far as I can see, and does not constitute the use of "incorporation" to describe it. What you're thinking of is a nonprofit corporation. [url=https://www.score.org/resources/what-difference-between-nonprofit-organization-and-benefit-corporation]The two are not the same.[/url] A corporation is not a nonprofit association, it's not a nonprofit organization, it's not nonprofit. Its a for profit entity, designed to make the most money it can possible for its shareholders. Regardless of legal word play, a corporation/business is not a person. They may be associations of people, but nowhere in the constitution were corporate rights mentioned. The right of the people does not extend to businesses or private entities, as there is a reason why legal bribery had not been allowed for a century until Citizens United came about. Money is not speech. If corporations wanted to advocate for certain political grounds or advantages, they shouldn't need to have monetary "free speech" to do it. Using corporate funds, hell, even spending exorbitant amounts of money to get your way is in no way free speech. "Speaking your mind" doesn't encompass financial bribery or buying congressional opinion, it means exactly what it says, "Speaking your [i]mind."[/i] Not "buying" political favor. The average citizen is represented far less than the corporations and wealthy elite. Private entities do not need to recognize your constitutionally protected rights, so why are they claiming to be not exempt as well? Money. Buys. Influence.

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  • Editado por Recon Number 54: 1/22/2016 6:20:24 PM
    [quote]Money. Buys. Influence.[/quote] I can stand on a soapbox in the middle of the town square and speak my mind. I can get together with like minded people, make placards and march in front of an establishment. The only people who can hear me (or us) are those who happen to be there at the time. We're speaking, but our voices only carry so far. So, we pay for a billboard. We use our resources and our money to be seen and heard by more people. If we have a lot of money due to having a lot of members or ones who have more cash? We could even buy ads during the SuperBowl. If we have even more money, we can make a film. Or buy a television station, or a network. Our money amplifies our voice and gets it in front of more ears, eyes and minds. Money can make our voices "louder" and harder to ignore, but in the end, money can only buy what is for sale. If influence is for sale? Then that's the real problem.

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  • Editado por GribbyMcGrub: 1/22/2016 7:03:18 PM
    The problem with that is that politics is another issue altogether. Also, the digital age has made the sharing of information far easier than before. There's a simple solution for this that I would like to see. 1.) Stop encouraging political bribery. 2.) Impeach/arrest corrupt/incompetent officials, congressmen, etc. Unfortunately, that won't happen at this rate, so I'll be bracing for the worst.

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