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publicado originalmente en: Why a 50% win ratio is the wrong goal in comp
Editado por I am kevin: 4/25/2025 8:58:37 AM
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First it’s not a 50/50 win rate basted system there is a sbmm in place where you will match better and better teams composition that will make you lost at one point but a clear example of this is panduh road to acendent. I was also interested in the 50/50 win rate theory. Because I tought it might be a thing. But clearly after watching him reach the emblem I realized I am just avrg that’s why I lose so much. And maybe it’s a system that sometimes help you with players on a team and sometimes is against you if you win to much. But I was curious in seeing one of the top end players play the whole journey and see if wil effect them. But he had a 81% win rate after reaching the 15000k so that clearly indicates that there are systems in place but it’s not a force 50/50 win rate. But I do agree that there are systems in place that will keep you from having a 100% win rate. Destiny competitive mode is build upon combat rating system. What you’re asking for is way to much of resource to put into a playlist even destiny pvp players avoid. I think like only 0.08% of players reach high end competitive aka the players base is just not interested. This means it’s not because of mm systems in place there simply not engaged with the content. Now on the second point because Bungie works with there combat rating system (cr) they only way to improve is let the players simply show there combat rating and when they want to improve that rating play against players with a higher rating. Now the issue with this is. Way to making ppl will be mad when they see there cr rating. The numbers are around 500 to 2500 and only a select few are in the 2200 and up. Also this would ask bungie if they will make a system in place that will adjust there cr rating this will cost way to much revenue for a free to play playlist. Wich players are not engage in. Adjusting your combats rating is nearly impossible in destiny. I have friends who are in the 2100 and up range and they can’t even find or play qp because the game constantly reminds them that there so highly skilled that each qp match is a 1 v 6. Now they have tryde lowering there cr rating and bungie apperntly doenst want this. Even going so far as losing 25 games in a row with negative kd the number won’t even go down by a single decimal number. So this incline me to believe Bungie doenst care about improvement of the player why should you. Just for clarification here is a example of how I think it works This is pure theoretical and not actually the numbers use but pure to illustrate the mathematical stuff behind competitive matchmaking: Acendent players (cr score 160/220) Adept players (110/160) Platinum players (80/110) For example Team 1 player 1 is cr 200 Player 2 is cr 140 Player 3 is cr 90 Team 2 Player 4 is cr 140 Player 5 is cr 110 Player 6 is cr 110 If all players play in platinum. The match will be decided as follows T1, player 1/6/3 this accounting balance team. T2, player 2/4/5 this,, ,,, ,, ,, According to this ballance team 1 is a total of 400 cr score Team 2 has a total of 390 cr score. So bungie says the outcome of the match will be 52% in favo of team one. Now all players are in platinum ranks when for some reason team 1/player 1 loses this match. He will not lose a lot of points because the game will try to push him towards Ascendent, player 6 will lose the most points because he is near his rank and should preform better and the odds are in is his favor player 3 won’t lose much because is above his expectation. This is the sbmm affecting the point system before the match outcome. Now we will look when this works against you as a player. For example your player 2 and your in the race for Acendent. When you are in adept and your cr score is 140 the game will acknowledge that you’re in your supposed bracket now when you go into a game where the odds are in your favo to win % wise and you lose that game. The game will deduct a sick amount of points near to 200. Just to make sure you will remain in your supposed bracket. And other wise when you have favo % and you win you will get as little as 50 points. This is all dependent on these mm parameters. This gives the player the illusion of they can improve. But only against bungie mm parameters which are set in stone. Aka beating a dead horse. But bungie is notrius for the cr score, and not changing it. You can do this calculation for you’re self. Go into comp/qp and lose a redicules amount of games. And you will see that there api will not change you’re cr score. The simple fact is that this would cost resources and we all know bungie PvP is not monitizable
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  • Ok read it all, I think the reason it lacks engagement is because of the way it simply refuses to make even match ups. I also disagree that it’s a lot of work to make the changes I’m requesting. They don’t need to show cr, they need to show rank on the scoreboard, they have all the rank info they’re just hiding it. They hide it bc if they didn’t people would see the pattern of them losing games when they get lower ranked teammates and higher ranked opponents. And then players would also go to an outside site like trials report, and check on these obvious outlier players. The guy with 1500 trials wins shouldn’t ever be below adept at a bare minimum. Me a mid tier player in gold facing the top 1% of players is exactly why people leave the playlist, that sucks on both sides, because again everyone wants to play with and against similarly skilled opponents. On the idea of lower skill players needing an ego boost, all they need is to play people at their level, and then they will naturally have wins and losses. The problem isn’t being low ranked or losing games, the problem is losing games bc mm made uneven teams to waste your time and then call it engagement. If I lose a close game with good teammates and good opponents, I’m disappointed but I still had a great time. The other thing here is that a bad experience has more impact than an equivalent good experience. This is a human psychology thing. The impact of losing and watching your teammates go 0.5 negative, constantly running into 1v3’s, saying you’re bad when you ask them to regroup and stop trickling, far outweighs the impact of carrying those same teammates to a close victory. Even if they are only sandbagging you 25% of the time you’re ultimately going to have a bad experience. The solution is to rank people accurately quickly, and the best way to build player trust is by giving them the data to see why they lost. Again halo infinite does an S tier job of this, in a free to play game, with a lower population. This is not a marathon level boondoggle pie in the sky thing, it’s one dev for maybe a week. It’s not about effort it’s about player retention philosophy, and metrics driven design instead of player satisfaction driven design, in this specific system.

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  • Ok first love that you took the time to write all that out, just responding to the panda thing then gonna go read more. The panda thing is a great example. A top 0.1% player shouldn’t have an 81% win rate, they should have like a 99% win rate, bc 99% of players can’t take them in a fight. And he should never lose a game before ascendant, and honestly from his first placement match on he should only be playing people in ascendant bc they know he’s top 0.1% because he has been for 10 years… This perfectly illustrates my point.

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  • Idk bro there are plenty of teams that can even beat him.

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  • You can't see your "skill" parameter in Comp, can you?

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  • No that’s actually what bungie wants they don’t want you to see you’re true skill. Or at least the number they give you. Because the whole system would collapse of ppl complaining about it. They want you on that treadmill think you can get better to keep you engaged with the game. Why do you think there are systems in place to make games harder when you keep winning. Or systems in place when you are highly skilled to compensate against you. It’s all so the belcurve of players keep engaging to keep playing time up to support revenue streams.. games are not designed to show true skill. Not only that’s I’m so tired of ppl saying comp score reflects skill. I am willing to bet anybody who plays someone significantly above there cr score like a 50 points differance they lose about 8 out of 10 times. Oh and if you’re question is what is my cr score I think they only website still showing it is destinykd.com

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  • Editado por Shatterday: 4/25/2025 9:04:00 PM
    Destinytracker has the CR number as well, it's been under the "detailed" tab the entire time. These 2 sites have different numbers tho, so who* knows.

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