I am glad they made the ports random, and before I get burned at the stake for speaking such blasphemy.....My rationale for this is, because it forced me to learn how to be flexible and learn all aspects of the raid. When running Vog before the patch I had only known one role. Keep the sync plates open. I had never set foot inside the portal or handled a relic. Every group I had been with had an experienced portal team who knew how to use the relic and shoot the oracles. I had grown comfortable sitting on top the gate, gleefully shooting at suicide harpies, but because of this patch I had to take the time to learn the ins and outs of the ports. I have become a better player because of it, I had to step outside of my comfort zone if I wanted my team to succeed.

If shit worked, we wouldn't have to cheese it. Duh.

Right let's talk about this patch. "Baby Bumpers" added to stop people pushing Atheon off. In my opinion this wasn't a glitch or bug but simply an exploit of the games mechanics. Some genius came up with the idea to push Atheon off because MOBS walk away from grenades. They outsmarted the devs with a creative and unique way to beat him and that obviously got under their skin. And if I'm correct I remember bungie saying that they wanted to see the different ways we would beat the bosses. However it was far to easy to push Atheon, and people non deserving of loot were getting it. So I think this change is for the greater good. What they should have done is fixed the glitches that break the raid. The glitches that mess up a run even if everyone does everything right. These glitches are not too bad on normal mode as normal mode is piss easy. However it's in hard mode that these glitches are more noticeable. [b]Not teleporting the right number of people. [/b] Sometimes it teleportes 1 or 2 people. This is infuriating especially when it happens near the end when Atheon is nearly dead. [b]Pretorians or Hobgoblins have glitch health. [/b] Alot of times the people who get teleported throw grenades and the relic holder slams the MOBS but for some reason the health goes back up. From a miniscule amount of health to full health. Sometimes his shield even comes back. [b]All oracles are destroyed but is says you succumb to the oracles. [/b] If we succumb to the oracles tell us before we destroy them not after. How many times we destroy oracles and it say we have succumb. [b]Portal is open but does not teleport players back. [/b] This is just unacceptable on your part bungie. Coming back through the portal is a key part of the raid. How did you not look into this when you made the raid. [b]Being detained and being killed by the supplicants. [/b] If we are detained by Atheon at least give us the chance to break out before the supplicants kill us. On hard mode this is very frustrating as you can't come back to life. [b]Killing all oracles and not getting Times Vengeance. [/b] Need I say more. [b]Atheon starts shooting before all oracles spawn. [/b] WTF. [b]Even when the relic shield is up being killed by splash damage. [/b] What is the point of having the shield if it can't protect you from damage. It can take a direct hit but can't protect you if Atheon shoots the floor infront you. These are just some of the problems off the top of my head. I'm sure there are many more, if any of you guys are having the same problems or have any of your own add them and bump this. Bungie should have fixed these problems before adding kill platforms and baby bumpers. Stopped people from using creative methods but didn't address their own poor coding that ruins hours of hard work. Seems like their concern is to stop people from getting loot quickly rather than fix broken mechanics in raids. Get your priorities right!

Honestly, I'm frustrated that the other bugs weren't addressed that people have been experiencing since the VoG's inception. -Not porting 3 people -Atheon shooting through the Relic shield -Not getting Time's Vengeance -Not going all the way through the portal coming back to the boss room and getting stuck in the Timestream -The usual lag/latency issues that cause enemies to not take damage -And many more This one is my favorite. Just tonight we were struggling to beat Atheon because we would encounter one of the above glitches and it would cause an instant wipe more times than not (though porting 2 people is recoverable, a lot of times we had just ONE person port which causes an instant wipe). About halfway through the fight we start Time's Vengeance and find we aren't dealing any damage to the boss. At the same time, we aren't taking damage from mobs. Okay, whatever. Timestream opens, NOBODY gets ported. We succumb to EVERY Oracle, but are not killed and the boss, instead of attacking, simply tries to port us again which results in four people dying and two people getting ported. This causes the encounter to finally catch up and end with a wipe. We tried for quite a long time trying to overcome these glitches because, hey, we've beaten Atheon plenty of times before and just plugged away through the BS and taken him down legit time and time again. I knew you were going to patch the old skool cheesing, just like I knew people would find a new way to cheese him after you patched it. I was fine with the patch, I didn't care. What annoyed me was that there was no mention of ever fixing any of the above, known, bugs. Tonight was a frustrating endeavor to, not beat Atheon, but instead beat your mechanics. We had to burn him as fast as humanly possible because the next Time's Vengeance may not show up, or we may only get one person to port so we better make this count. That's not good game design, that's ridiculous, and it really sucks to read about how things like non-random teleporting are what you need to focus on because "The Raid is never supposed to be easy." Well, right now the Raid is broken, and after tomorrow's weekly clan run, it's going to be harder to convince myself to come back and play this content. Maybe the next Raid will be okay, but I have a feeling you aren't concerned with your player base's frustration.

It broke the game. Its teleporting random players when they are dead

Deej lets talk, Yes A true MMO is supposed to be hard. And you should have a team that knows what there doing! That's fine. But being teleported randomly to a different world? That's not what a true MMO style. I played a lot of MMO's back in the day, and all other MMO Games there not random as -BLAM. I get it.. This is you're guys hardest challenge ever put together.. But it shouldn't be random at all. It's all about skill and who's best and other things than other people. For and example 1. If I can't control out side and kill the Harpys and I'm best inside killing the ADS, and myself claiming relic, I should be able to do that. 2. If you know what to do outside. And make sure that the portals stay open. You should have that availability. 3. If I can't defend outside and A BEAST! Inside the teleporter! And you can kill the oracles.. You should. Remember like what guys say. You're gear defines what you been through in order to receive it! If it's OP as -BLAM is should be! Like the Mythoclast, in all orders the Dev team needs to put it back in order! Like how it was!! It was fine! And BTW! The teleporters are still broken.

The changes have made the final battle against Atheon more fun , i was always one of the players who got sent through the timestream , this meant that i basically shot oracles , then stood at the back of the dungeon , spamming grenades , firing the odd shot at the boss and reloading for next trip . Being forced to stay and defend the gates meant that i felt much more involved in the battle , which overall was more fun and much more satisfying when we beat him . All in all i'm very happy with the changes . Unfortunately there are still bugs which need sorting , particularly when Atheon only sends 1 or 2 through the timestream or teams wiping due to missing oracles , even although all oracles have been destroyed . Not game breaking by any sense of the word but very annoying .

Hello Deej and Bungie, I am relatively certain this won't be read, and the feedback will be discarded. Even though I wish it wasn't, and I wish I could still believe in you. However the recent patches have quite frankly proven my worst fear, that the real issues such as the useless exotics, complete lacklustre story, stability issues, loss of sound in the raid, and completely luck based level system (29-30) etc... will not be tackled and Bungie rather fix ways of obtaining loot slightly easier that fixing the inherent core problem with the loot system itself. [b]A little bit about myself:[/b] I loved Bungie games and played them religiously. Destiny was no different. I now have nearly 300h played. I was lvl 20 on my Warlock (the best class in the game, aka the master race), within the first few hours of the game release, and afterwards I laughed at the email I received from Bungie that I should start playing the game as it had been released. I enjoyed Destiny, in fact I played it like crazy, dinging lvl 28 just after the first weekly reset (bought all my gear using strange coins, vanguard and crucible marks), as I wasn't blessed with drop luck such as others around me, which was fine, I was able to EARN my gear. I swiftly lvled a Titan and a Hunter, so I could enjoy the game's (honestly very scarce content) many times over. I didn't really mind doing everything again and again. I didn't mind the unimaginative story and the clear evidence that the game had been ripped to pieces shortly before release. I wished it were different, but I was willing to play the game anyway, without a story, without a real reason to go out there and fight for earth. As a hardcore raider within various MMOs (some with 500days+ played time on the clock) and an avid FPS player, I loved the idea of raiding in a FPS universe. Surely I gathered my friends and we easily cleared the raid in the first attempt, we didn't really get any loot but that was fine, the experience counted. However I still remember the moment after Atheon died, where I asked (some what rhetorically, and in disbelief): "This is it? This was the entire raid?" Consequently I cleared the raid on all 3 characters, week in week out, mostly on HM and Normal mode, until recently were I just focus on HM as the normal mode "loot slots" are incorporated into the HM kills anyway. So far I have cleared the raid 32 times (both HM and Normal mode), these were full clears, not "throw Atheon of the platform" clears. Which seems like a reasonable amount. 32 clears are roughly 160 "Loot Slots" (considering each boss has the chance to drop 1 item, besides Atheon who can drop 2). [b]The Loot Issue[/b](One of many, yet I'd like to focus on this one) Of my 3 characters, not one is lvl 30. I have gotten a total of 4 raid set armor pieces that I can use, (Boots, chest on my hunter / Boots on my Warlock / Chest on my Titan), next to that I have received 9 Raid Sniper rifles, 8 or 9 ships (reskinned loading screen essentially, 7 Sparrows, countless chatterwhite shaders and an array of different weapons that I already have on each character (vision of confluence etc...). As I raid with the same people every week we know what items everyone needs and what kind of luck everyone has had lately. Every week when we kill Atheon HM, I don't get the helmet I want for my beloved warlock, and instead get a shit and a few ascended materials, while others that already have 5 helmets, get another 2, making them feel bad for me, and making even more frustrated than I already was with the items I got, and the item I did not get. This quite frankly makes them and me regret playing, and hate the system that is behind loot. Don't get me wrong, I am very patient with loot, having had many streaks of bad luck in all the games I have played. However Destiny has managed to ascend to a level of frustration which I have never seen in any video game, and the game yet seems to be able to give you another kick to the teeth. First you don't get the item you have been farming for each week, time after time. Then someone that wishes they could give their spares to you, gets another pair, while you get shards and a ship, every week. You then go and do the raid on you other characters, the same thing might happen in reverse, while you also get 2 of the items you want on your previous char for the char you didn't want it on, and so on. At the same time someone that does the raid for the first or second time, gets decked out in a full set, during a single run, and you begin to question yourself, why am I still playing, why do I invest countless days into this game, if even in a few years I might still not have gotten this item, because statistically it is possible. The time invested into the game does not get rewarded. Everything seems to be pure and utter luck. To the point where it hurts, and people just want to leave and play something else, even those that have the necessary luck, because the game's loot system just completely ruins the experience for everyone. Sure there are those that say its all fine, but really those are the people that have not been punished by it since day one, across a huge amount of play time. While also providing no way around it, you can't earn lvl 30 with time, you can't do something incurably hard to get any closer, the only way to get there is through a random loot generator, and some of us are just not blessed by dice luck as others. Deej, I know I want this game to be the best, I am sure everyone else does as well and I know you want the same. However, this can only be done by listening to the community and fixing the real issues rather than destroying ways the community is playing the game. After all we are the people that spend the most time within this world. You said yourself that "you are excited to see how the players play your game and what they do to the world", then please let us do that, and make sure you design a world that we can do that in, within the bounds that you imagined, but don't alter the world months after and leave the most glaring issues untouched. [b]Some solutions: [/b] Was it not an option to just leave the raid untouched and make sure the next raid has no such issues? Is it not a top priority to change the systems that make this game painful and frustrating and replace or mend them? -A basic trading system such as Diablo 3 has successfully employed right now, play with your friends, complete the greatest challenges you can throw at us in a team, and if something drops that you don't want or someone else in your party really desires, let us trade the item for a set amount of time, because we conquered the content together, and we want to make our team stronger, to tackle the next thing you throw at us. -Allow us to earn gear, if we weren't blessed by RNG, through raid marks or similar items, so that we will eventually get lucky, possibly let us trade in unwanted raid items (9 sniper rifles, ships, sparrows and chatterwhites anyone?), possibly to the according vendor in the tower, and in turn receive a currency that we can trade in for items we want. -Why do helmets only drop from Atheon? Opposed to all other items dropping for most bosses? Especially as Warlocks for instance are not blessed with great helmets such as Titans and Hunters, which makes the raid helmet essential for anyone that wants to have a decent warlock pve set up. -Change loot tables, a ship, sparrow or shader are in no way comparable to items that define how you play, or give you levels which make you able to conquer more advanced content. level 30 matters, no matter what some say. -Give before you take, stop taking away, and start adding to an already scarce game. Why does every patch entail a nerf, or removal of one popular method of obtaining loot after another, rather than giving us something that we enjoy? We all know that the reviews and the community feedback has been rather negative (the business side obviously looks somewhat different), so why worsen the situation by further frustrating the community, with patches that take away, and not delivering on promises made in early weekly updates (exotic buffs?), not to mention the promises and statements that were made prior to release. (Sadly at this point I deleted a lot of my post, as the copy paste failed, therefore I will end it here) Bungie remember we are the ones that spend countless days in this game, we know what it is like and what works and doesn't work, and if we are still here we care. We give you feedback because we care. We want this game to be the best, and thats the same you want. Instead of going against what we want, at least as a majority, please listen to us. Stop taking away, and start giving. Every patch includes some nerf, or making some method of acquiring loot obsolete. Try giving something back, exotic weapon buffs, fixing the loot system and so much more, real issues that frustrate players, not some raid boss that likes walking of a cliff, or a cave that is a prime hunting ground. Let us fix the problems this game, together, as a team. In your own words, we can forge a legend, and Destiny can still become the game it was (at some point maybe) and the came it could become. We believe in this game, and thats why we try and change things, the worst punishment one can inflict is stopping to communicate and allow errors to be made repeatedly. A team, bungie and the community, together rather than separated through frustrating patches and constant patches that take away rather than improve the game where it matters. If you read this, my sincerest thanks. Eyes up Guardian....start looking, understanding and doing what really matters.

I just wanted to vent a bit, so forgive me my rant. Now, the growing problem I have been seeing in destiny, and this is in PvP and PvE, is [b]Light Poop[/b]. I'm sick of all you guardians out there not cleaning up after yourselves. Now, there are some of you out there that pick up that light poop as soon as it pops out, thank you btw, others just walk on by not to be bothered. But its still not enough, the light poop is everywhere, when you go on strikes, when the guardian next to you, as your struggling for life, just thinks its ok to just poop out some light. Its unseemly. No regard for hygiene I tell you. I usually think its an engram and run over to it just to get light poop all over my boots. Do you know how hard it is to get light poop off your boots? Its fricken hard man! I'm tired of spending my hard earned glimmer at the tower cleaners. But, I digress. Maybe its their diet, I don't know, too many hive biscuits. Maybe, just maybe, its guardians just full of so much light they have no way to let it all out at once except for during a struggle when they're stressed the most. However this is happening, we have a problem. Please talk to your local guardian representative to claim your free light poop bag. Let's keep destiny clean out there guardians. Brought to you and paid for by the makers of BS. The brand you know and love.

what about pushing the templar off?

"We hear you." That's what you've been saying for weeks. So, I'm glad you read these posts. I'm glad you "hear" us. It -blam!-ing sucks that you're not listening though. I'm not happy about this. I know how to beat the raid. I can handle the relic, I can hold the gates, I can kill the oracles. I am less effective when I do not have the option to choose my strategy. Atheon's Epilogue does extra damage against oracles. So does Praedyth's Revenge. I have both of those weapons! So when I did the raid, I chose to be on the oracle team, because I am in a position to help my team out based on my gear, which I rightly earned. Atheon's Epilogue is not a great gun against anything but oracles. If I am holding the gates, I would rather have different gear on me (Suros Regime and the 77 Wizard, thank you very much). This "fix" does not increase the challenge in any meaningful way. You cannot compare the Templar shielding players to Atheon teleporting players. The shield just requires you to shoot a few bullets, but Atheon's teleport requires a completely different gameplay strategy than the people who are holding the gates. I'm extremely disappointed that your developers chose NOT to listen to the community. The raid is not incredibly hard. No matter how much you want it to be, it isn't. Trying to tweak it to make it more difficult because you're embarrassed at how quickly your community conquered the raid is sad. Will Gjallahorn be nerfed now that you saw a squad take down Atheon legitimately in 17 seconds? I mean, surely your developers didn't INTEND him to die so quickly! Why not have our guns do 1 damage for each bullet, that way the fight is super challenging! Adding artificial difficulty is HORRIBLE way to try and add challenge to something. I'm completely fine with the baby bumpers for Atheon, btw. Had hope that with the patch not going out last week you guys actually listened. Good to know you don't give a shit and your egos will win out. Extremely disappointed.