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Destiny

Discuss all things Destiny.
originally posted in:Decoding Destiny
Edited by Ryuu5oul: 10/16/2014 12:15:04 PM
33

A simple copper box .... but very significant. (Edited: my opinion added)

Ghost Fragment: Ishtar Sink [quote]The box appears to be copper. The red lid is dented, one hinge shattered. Inside waits a small quantity of the finest, driest powder, more brown than gray, more blue than green. The greatest minds in creation make quick work of the material. The powder is weighed by the grain, and studied close, and remembered. One hundred billion bits of near-nothing reside inside the copper box, all of them tiny and nearly spherical, all etched with the outlines of continents and islands and icecaps. Each sphere represents a planet, and some of these tiny globes match known worlds. There is one Earth and one Mars and a Venus too. The box holds renderings of every habitable world in the galaxy. One of them offers a simple explanation: "The box is a message. The message is the minuscule nature of the box's cargo. It's the image of one hundred billion worlds barely filling two hands." But if so, who is delivering this message? What vastness do they wish to impress on us? Is it a warning, or an invitation, or a taunt?[/quote] This is at first seems to be nothing, but I have come to the conclusion that it alludes to something very significant in Destiny's future, I will post my opinion on the matter later, but without me to persuade you, I want to know: What do you think? Edit: There have been some interesting theories so far, so now I will post my own speculation. First let's list what we know. -The box was considered a message meaning it may have been sent to Ishtar Sink. -The box is damaged, but no sign of age is given, this does not mean that the box is not old, but I think if it was, it would have been included in this detailed description. Since it is damaged there are a number of possibilities that we can draw: It was done on purpose so that the sender could further impress on us the insignificance of our worlds, or another possibility is that someone tried to stop it from getting to us, or that it endured many hardships in getting to us and traveled a long ways. -The box contains very detailed knowledge of planets in systems far beyond our own, meaning whoever sent them has knowledge of or has traveled to these world. Out of our enemies let us consider who among them would have the knowledge to send this. The Fallen? The Hive? I don;t really think that they are that extensive. The Fallen are just pirates now, a shell of their once noble society, I could not see them doing something so mysterious and intricate even if they did have this knowledge, they would be more straightforward. The Hive.. I don't think anyone actually would even consider them as a suspect. The Cabal? I think their messages would look more like shell rounds, although they do have the knowledge to do it. The Vex? They may have the knowledge, but notice that these contain every [i]habitable[/i] planet. It does not include Mercury, even though we know from the game that the Vex were on there and almost turned it into a machine. So the contents of the box doesn't seem to match the their modus operandi. So we have eliminated all known enemies as a suspect. Which makes sense, none of them would sit down and have a conversation with us I think. So moving on, out of all the other organizations and allies we know which one could possibly have information about the habitable worlds in our universe. There are only two. The Traveler, because it supposedly has knowledge far beyond us and the Nine, mainly because we do not know much about them. For arguments sake lets eliminate the Traveler as a suspect, also somehow don't see it delivering a message in a dented copper box. Consider this bungie chose to name those illusive pieces of armor and weapons Xur sells "exotics." Define exotic: originating in or characteristic of a distant foreign country. Interesting word choice, I have always thought so. In other words, the exotics that we have possibly originated from or were based on technology from a distant world. Maybe not all of them, but most of them. Xur is obviously not human, or Exo, or Awoken. I theorize that the Nine are an alien species, but where are they from. I have come to the following conclusion: The Nine are a collective of extra-terrestrial or possibly even from an alternate plane of existence species that have placed their bets on Humanity/Awokens/Exos so to speak. Perhaps they know that only those aligned with The Traveler are the only ones that can defeat the Darkness and that is why they are selling us their technology, perhaps their motivations are more greedy, or something altogether different. Their motivations elude me, as well as why they sent this message. They were trying to convey something to us, what? Where they saying that we are ignorant since we do not know all these worlds? Were they saying that the universe is insignificant compared to... something else? I think it will be some time before we find out.

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  • Definitely sounds like an enemy thing to do. What better way to frighten your enemy than to show that there is no purpose? That your amazing amount of work and fighting, is nothing in the eyes of the one who created that box. Resistance is futile.

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  • Very cool concept. Way to dig into it!

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  • Good find

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  • Raid Idea. What if the hive captured an Archon Priest and engulfed him in Darkness like they did to the Traveler Fragment in that one mission. As a raid we go in seeking to destroy this potential monster but we're to late and they finish this Hive infested Archon Priest. We fight it. 1. This Raid require a Raid teams of each sub class 2. Unlike other raids , the Raid team will be split in two. Each team will start in their own remote locations at the start of the raid to do their own missions/task. 3.This raid will take place in the world of the Hive, in order to get there the void walker warlock of the team will invade the Hellmouth to find a relic the Praxis Warlocks have discovered to be called a Philosopher Stone. The Warlock will have to fight it from the grips of high wizard called Excall, The Witch. This warlock will be accompanied by the Bladedancers Hunter and Defender Titan. * If Excall is not killed by the VoidWalker, then he will revive himself ( In a Weaker form) and become Burr, The Wizard.* 4. The Sunsinger Warlock, Gunslinger Hunter and Striker Titan will also invade the Hellmouth to The strike room in order to wait for the other team to finish. Only there's something wating. The Wizards have ressurected Phogoth ( sacrificing themselves actually by the compulsion of oryx) and he is now Phogoth, the reborn. This time he remembers his death by guardians and now he roars the name of Vengence. But he's also out of control. He attacks everything, Knights , Wizards , everything. In order to stop this new phogoth the guardians must attack him with their supers all at once. When both bosses are done. The Voidwalker will use the philosopher stone to transport His team to the Strike room, then surging up all his void power , he rips a hole in space and the team ventures to give world. 5. When we get to the Hive world we find it in a War zone. The Fallen have invaded the world and has laid sieged to the world. We fight through waves and both fallen and Hive as our Ghost work in Union to track the Archon priest. As we go along we discover how the fallen got there and discover a house of fallen even more powerful than we know. ( so powerful they took Mercury from the Cabal.) they want their second priest back. 6. As we get closer, we fight Kells and ultimately a Prime Servitor ( that's so badass that it fights High Knights And Lots of orges.) 7. We defeat them all and ultimately reach the archon priest who is Dark- infested and powerful. He battles Captains and Servitors , Knights and Acyeolytes. Then ultimately us 8. We fight him, purging him of his darkness by using a rotation of supers( which will be multiplied due to a mysterious power: the striker & defender will lead the attack by first fist of havocing which electrifies him is arc energy , the defender will then Pop a bubble and the hunters will take over. The Blade dancer will take on the archon in a melee battle as the gunslinger fires at him ( the gunslinger and blade dancer will strike as many times until the timer for them runs out) the staggering archon will then fall under wrath of the warlocks. The Voidwalker will send everything at him, grenades, melees, everything. The Voidwalker will also do so while nova bombing him continuously. This will be done 3 times. 9.After the third ,as we drop his Heath were suddenly stopped in place by a cloud of darkness. That lifts us, oryx appears and stops the war, he englifes the archon priest in darkness and the priest vanishes. Oryx turns to us and there's nothing we can do.... Until Toland appears. He hits Oryx with his own super and is revealed to be the force behind our super light in that world. He gives us his ghost and tells the Voidwalker ghost to use the philosopher stone to teleport them out. As we teleport we see Toland cloak in Bright light and face oryx.

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    • Let's keep in mind that FWC has a time viewing device (don't have the source of that info, please correct me if you have more complete info). And the vex can time travel (example: VoG/Atheon). So expect the next installments of destiny to completely mind F you in terms of time travel and things getting changed. Ill be we time travel to prevent the collapse completely at some point in the series.

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      • THE BOX HOLDS ALL WORLDS VISITED BY THE TRAVLER

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        • I've heard xur say some of his cells where originally from earth. Just one of the random things he spouts on about.

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        • The message that the box suggests to me is "the universe is a simulation." A toy world. Your world's in a box. The broken hinge suggests something managed to escape from inside the simulation into the real world outside. Or at least to a higher level of reality. And sent us back this message.

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          • TL:DR

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          • Edited by Cerith: 10/15/2014 7:58:10 PM
            Well, let me think: Given that it was found in the Ishtar Sink, I'd estimate that this relic was found somewhere early in the Golden Age, when researchers first arrived on terraformed Venus. Before this, Venus was a very uninhabitable place - Surface temperatures easily would have annihilated copper. So perhaps this is related to the Traveler in some way? One Hinge Shattered - perhaps dropped? Probably insignificant. Potentially, the Traveler uncovered it when terraforming somehow. Ghost claims that the ruins on Venus pre-date humanity but I find that quite hard to believe, I'm not sure whether to take that at face value or not. Edit: It appears that the ruins were there when the Traveler arrived: "You see history hidden between the barren rocks and within the high acid clouds. You see the ruin ready to claim its birthright. Sunlight starves. The fierceness chills and thins and runs sweet. A new ocean emerges, thick and salty and hot, from springs and geysers that drench the dead ground. You wonder: will this world's second birth be its finest?" So potentially this chest could have been a relic of the civilization that came before. In any case, we have a symbolic representation of all habitable planets in the galaxy as dust in a box. Some particles match known worlds - maybe this is a sort of record of the Traveler's movements? As to warning, invitation or taunt, I'd say that it could be all three. Look how small you are, human, look how easily I could crush you - but in time you too may hold this vastness in your hands. I'd need more time to think on it to really connect it to Destiny's future, so I'd love to hear your thoughts.

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            • let me preface this by saying I'm not trying to attack your post or ideas. Everything below is written in the form of rebuttal, but only because I only posted the vague interpretation I had. More than anything I'm interested to see if an opposing viewpoint can a. bring more people into the discussion or b. add more points for different ideas on the box's origins: I think the fact that the box is literally a message isn't an inarguable truth. The line that says this doesn't say it in absolute terms, and the final passage of the card says "But if so, who is delivering this message?" I think it's arguable that this wasn't necessarily intentionally given to humans. Though I do agree that the card is at least pointing the reader to the question of "who made this and why?" You could make a pretty compelling argument that the box is at least centuries old. If it was studied by the scientists in the Ishtar Collective than it was pre-collapse, which makes the object centuries old in the current time. (The Darkness - "Centuries of debate gave birth to competing arguments on the nature of the Darkness and the Collapse.") While I can't think of a compelling reason for the fallen to have left this, I think they easily could have. We know they can travel between solar systems and have been around for a long time, considering their current fallen from royalty state. (Servitor - "Servitors are living relics of the once-mighty Fallen civilization.")(The Fallen - "they arrived on their massive Ketches in the wake of the Collapse")(The Fallen - "There are hints of ancient nobility to the Fallen - the scars of lost grandeur.") We know the hive exist beyond and communicate outside of our current sollar system (ghost dialog in the Shrine of Oryx Mission), and while there may not be an obvious reason I think magic would be a pretty good method of creating something like this. Cabal have the reach and technology, though I can onlyimagine their giant hands failing to make these and it still makes me giggle. I still believe the Vex is the most compelling creator, considering the location of object and the Ishtar's Collective research into the ruins on Venus and the Vex themselves. Beyond that, if they're directing a message to us via this box than the lack planets that they could inhabit (Mercury) would make sense. It wouldn't have the same meaning if they included any planets their mostly synthetic bodies could live on. I believe outside of the Traveler and The Nine there is at least two, if not three other possible messengers. The Darkness itself. Without a clear idea of what the Darkness is I don't think it can necessarily be excluded. After that would be the Queen. I think you could argue that the Queen has at least access to the knowledge through her interaction with the other species (fallen, and whatever the witches turn out to be) and The Nine themselves (Ghost Fragment: The Queen). Though the Queen's timeframe doesn't make sense as the Awoken were born in the collapse, before the object was being studied. And the shakiest of them all, though certainly more connected to the solar system would be the hypothetical precursor species of Mercury that the Dreams of Alpha Lupi alludes to in (Ghost Fragment: Mercury) Without a good means of excluding most of these you could structure a decent argument for most of these species as having sent the message. As for the Exotic argument, I think it's a great way of looking into Bungie's word usage, but the vast majority of the Exotics have lore that puts their origins and existence solidly in known, post-collapse sources. The armor pieces don't have their own grimoire cards, but even some of these have names that attach them to known origins (like Helm of Saint-14 or Young Ahamkara's Spine or Mk. 44 Stand Asides) Has origin story: SUROS Regime Hard Light Monte Carlo Bad Juju Red Death The Last Word Thorn Universal Remote Invective Pocket Inifinity Ice Breaker Gjallarhorn Truth Thunderlord Super Good Advice Unconfirmed but non-mysterious in origin: MIDA Multi-Tool The Fate of all Fools Plan C Patience and Time Mysterious: Vex Mythoclast (why is it designed for human hands?)

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              • This is a really cool concept, thank you for the thought provoking post! I was looking into the nine in the grimoire and stumbled.on the fragment legends 2, saying that the nine were the first born awoken, and somehow transcended intelligence if I recall correctly. I have so much reading to do on the grimoire cards I will update this with more things I can find :)

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              • Not sure if this is the place to post, but I've seen lots of people mention theories on the darkness and how it may have it's own guardians. I was wondering if the exo stranger was maybe one of those darkness guardians. When we first meet her in person and dinklebot says "you're not a guardian." She replies , "no, I was not born of light." I thought it very interesting her choice in wording. That's literally my only basis for the idea though, but something I thought to throw in.

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                • Exo stranger?

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                • It's the Guardians Of The Galaxy from the past

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                • Could be the stranger. The rifle says she's from the future

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                • What boxes I haven't seen them?

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                • Have you considered the last mission on earth, the relay? I believe ghost says something about long lost star maps at the end when the relay is opened. Might be from rasputin or the other warminds.

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                • [quote]The Hive? I don;t really think that they are that extensive. The Hive.. I don't think anyone actually would even consider them as a suspect.[/quote] during that one moon story mission, ghost days that the archives from the hive say that they have seen thousands of worlds taken by the darkness. maybe the hive are inhabiting a few thousands of these planets right now? who knows though.

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                • Could be related to the little circles that look like copper coins that the devs said were scattered around the game

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                • Maybe that's how many worlds are in danger from the Darkness?

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                • My theory is that the 9 are the nine warminds. Including Rasputin. I think that perhaps the traveler is actually evil, and all of our enemies are it's former allies and it turned on them. Now they have chased him to earth and the fighting began. No one remembers why, all the races just fight because it's all they know. All except the warminds, this would explain why Rasputin never speaks to us. Because he views us as allies with his enemy.

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                • Just going to comment. Venus and Mars are not normally a habital world. Are they included because they were terraformed? Or is Mercury not included because it is no longer habital to our kind of life due to the vex?

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                  • I doubt it's the Nine, I won't go into my reasoning but I'll nitpick the exotics. SUROS Regime is made by SUROS, hardly hailing from a distant land and yet still exotic. Icebreaker, it's a prototype sniper rifle for sure, but nothing foreign about it. In this sense Exotic would cover anything not in the norm, or a masterpiece of sorts. Gjallihorn *or w/e* are made from armor scraps for example, simply ment just to pay tribute to those that have fallen. The perk with the wolves, the armor peices are like taking your comrades with you and thus your pack is with you in spirit. I personally thing maybe Kabr isn't dead, rather just thrown into the future and that box could possibly have been a message of sorts hurdled through time. "Exo Stranger" does have some unseen companions and her gun is made of parts that should not exist yet. So time travel is happening outside of Vex regulation.

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                  • I've been thinking about the Final Story encounter - the Sol Progeny. Why are they called the Sol Progeny - Children of Sol? Why are the ruins on Venus so "black garden-esque"? Imminent, Eschaton, Primeval. The Sol Progeny clearly is named for its dominion over all time. The Black Garden supposedly exists outside of space and time, so the Sol Progeny shouldn't directly link back to our solar system in the way that it does. This seems to be a telling sign that the Vex somehow originated here, in this solar system. The ghost fragment from venus states that the traveler is bringing a 'rebirth' to venus - clearly there was civilization there before. or after, or now. This idea of time as a cycle seems fantastic to me, because one of the themes of Destiny is 'survival'. How better to survive and ensure continued existence than to write yourself into the very laws of the universe, or turn time into a feedback loop whereupon you are just continually improving and each time cycle becomes a "revision". Anyway, The vex chassis appear to be made of copper or bronze - This could possibly be a Vex artifact. Perhaps including models of the planets that they have 'networked', are 'networking', and will 'network' Then there's the quote in the exo card: "Why were the exo minds created so similar to humans? I think somebody wanted to live forever..." Do we know that the exo weren't created by the Warminds?

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                    • I long suspected humans where not just confined to Sol space. I recon we managed to map the galxic and pushed out. Or at least learn from the BWB (big white ball 😆) what's out there

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