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Edited by ProwlyB: 9/1/2014 1:57:26 AM
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ProwlyB

The Threat of Feminism to Gaming?

Having been born in the 80's, I remember the attitude people had about video games growing up. Most people didn't understand video games, especially adults. But, not fitting in with most people didn't really bother me much. I learned to live with it and embrace my differences. I accepted the fact that most adults and even most of my peers didn't really "get it." Particularly, I remember being mostly ignored by girls and being told I was weird when I admitted to liking video games. Even to this day, to be honest I STILL don't mention anything about video games when initially asked "What are your interests?" by an attractive girl. The stigma still exists, though admittedly it has lessened over the years. Today, I think we're seeing a new trend - girls are becoming a more active part of the "gaming culture" and embracing the same great experiences we had growing up. I love women...and I'm thrilled when I notice them taking an interest in the things I enjoy. I feel wonderful when I see my two nieces for example, playing video games like Skyrim, Sims, Mario and Zelda because it reminds me that they'll more easily relate to and understand boys who might otherwise be thought of as weird or too geeky. Unfortunately, there's a downside to all of this. And that is that with the influx of women into video games, we're starting to see an influx of "self identified feminists." Not all women are feminists mind you, and to those who aren't feminists - I congratulate you! You're most probably an intelligent beautiful and wonderful person who deserves my deep respect and admiration. Bravo! Thank you for what you do. However, it's unfortunate that the trend of feminism's influence over gaming is increasing. What does that mean for us? It means that feminism is attacking games for not having "strong female protagonists" or "excessive nudity" or "violence towards women." Feminism is intruding on the culture of gaming. It's attempting to censor, limit or judge the entertainment consumed by those of us who call ourselves gamers. If it succeeds, video games will never be the same again. No longer will the content of our entertainment be determined by what appeals to us, by our rights as gamers. Instead, it will be determined by the coercion of feminists using political legislation, and social shaming. Feminists will use the threat of being labeled "racist, sexist, misogynistic, homophobic, or bigoted" when someone says something they simply don't agree with. And when men are no longer free to just simply be themselves...they'll eventually abandon forums like these. They'll slowly abandon video games altogether and leave the devices to women. They'll move on to doing something else, somewhere else. They'll go where they're free to exist without shame or censorship or oppression from the gynocentric perspective. [i]Edit: Some of you are mistaking this as a direct call for action, or paranoid doomsday rambling on my part. It's neither of those things, more like a reflection of feminism on modern gaming culture (from the perspective of a non-feminist). I think it's important to combat the false narrative put forth by feminists. Also, some of you keep asserting "feminism is about equality between the sexes." While I agree that traditional feminism was originally about that, modern feminism necessarily evolves into female supremacy. If you disagree, I challenge you to name even one social or political challenge facing men today that modern feminists care about.[/i]

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  • Edited by Athhena: 9/3/2014 2:16:14 AM
    [i]"Today, I think we're seeing a new trend - girls are becoming a more active part of the "gaming culture" and embracing the same great experiences we had growing up."[/i] OP I was born in the 80s as well and I was playing video games as a toddler on my parents Commodore 64 before we got our Sega Mega Drive in 92. I grew up with gaming. I haven't just joined a "boys club" recently and there are plenty of other women who had the [i]"same great experiences we had growing up"[/i] You turned into a bigger moron the longer this rant went on. I'm definitely not a feminist. Equality? Great, all for it. Also don't any of you have mothers or sisters? I'm sure they would love you hating women :/

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    • Wait when did we start letting women playing video games? Next thing you know they will want to vote and expect equal pay.

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      • >Implying feminists are a threat to video games

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        • Edited by Cat DeSpira: 9/2/2014 6:24:03 PM
          I signed up just to reply to you as I see so much of the sentiment and ideas you wrote on the 'net so frequently that, after reading your statements above, I just had to respond in hopes of educating at least one person about a history that is missed time and time again...and a few other things. I chose yours out of the mess of misinformation on this topic littering the internet, like obscene scribblings on the wall of a restroom stall, because, for the most part, I think your comments come from more a lack of history on the subject of women in gaming and less malice. Basically, you seem to be believing a lot of hype your generation has so readily spread about feminism and women's roles in gaming, the latter in which you claim is "recent". I assure you it is not. Since you stated you were born in The 80s (my guess would be around 1986) you undoubtedly missed the rise of a pop culture sensation that exploded upon the world in 1978-1983; the great surge that awakened an entire generation to the wonders of vector/raster dreams. I didn't. I began playing PONG in 1974 as a kid...and I am female. Loads of girls played video games back then, graduating from electromechanical to the early arcade games, like Boothill, before Space Invaders became the sensation that took the entire world by storm. The neighborhood arcades were full of girls. I don't care what millenial-journos say. Most of what they write about the "video craze" is largely incorrect and based on marketing evidence and not eye witness account. When [b]Centipede [/b]hit in 1981, one of the most popular games at the time, everyone knew it was made by a woman, [b]Dona Bailey[/b]. In fact, [b]Atari [/b]had another woman creating games, the great [b]Carol Shaw[/b]. Before Atari, she worked as a programmer at [b]Activision[/b], having already been recognized as being the first female programmer in 1978 with the the [b]3D-Tic-Tac-Toe [/b]for the [b]Atari 2600[/b]. Also the first video game tournament ever held,[b] The National Space Invaders Championship[/b], sponsored by Atari in 1980, was won by a girl, [b]Rebecca Heineman[/b], who went on to found[b] Interplay Productions[/b]. In fact, her credentials over the years are staggering and too numerous to mention here as are the names of hundreds of women pioneers of the video game age. So what I am saying is, women do not have a "sudden interest" in video games either as programmers, casual players or competitors. We have always been here, many of us from the very beginning. But I don't blame you for not knowing that. Right around the time you were born, if not a bit before, the "video game crash" occurred and with that game companies had to make a decision in marketing to survive. Since it was believed that young males were the largest demographic (and they probably were) marketing became increasingly male-centric. Thus the image of the gamer became overwhelmingly male and stayed that way for decades. But the truth is, that wasn't so. I knew many girls who began like I did on PONG who went through the various cycles and platforms, who grew into women who adored video games and never lost interest. The 90s were fabulous. DOOM, BLOOD, HERETIC, HEXXEN, DUKE NUKE EM -comp games that had a huge female audience I don't believe has ever been documented. And let's not forget MYST. With the advent of the internet, and the rise of social media a decade later, I am quite convinced that this is why it seemed the presence of women in gaming appeared to triple overnight: the world finally began to see and hear us. [b]On Feminism:[/b] Your generation, no offense, has this uncanny trait of searching for truth and ideas to believe in from whomever is yelling the loudest. It's like having a foul, accusatory, paranoiac opinion on a subject on 4Chan merits one instant accreditation from their peers;i.e. "Friggin' feminists are ruining gaming!" It's all so strange to me to read this over and over again that I wonder how anyone could say such a thing when Google exists. Just type in [i]"war on video games"[/i] and go back in history to 1976, when [b]Death Race[/b], an arcade game, came under massive attack for being "too violent". From the very beginning video games were under attack from US Senators and watch-groups predominately lead by men, not feminists. The biggest case recently, [b] Brown v. Entertainment Merchants Association[/b], sought to outlaw certain video games to minors under the age of 18, was ruled against by the Supreme Court who gave video games protective status under The First Amendment, deeming video games art and free as such to express content, speech and graphics as any creative medium is allowed. Take note that one of the strongest supporters for censorship of video games was none other than [b]Arnold Schwarzenegger[/b]. [url] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brown_v._Entertainment_Merchants_Association.[/url] In fact, men imposed this ban. Senators and Governors. Video games are not "in danger from feminists" or anyone else. They can't be. Video games are protected by The First Amendment as of 2011 so anyone even trying to (if such a person exists) would have to overthrow a Supreme Court decision which would not only be a lengthy fight but also cost millions of dollars. It just isn't likely. Yet countless people, mostly men, are personally attacking women over the internet over an imaginary situation that is really quite embarrassing, prompting the women who are being harassed to fight back in opposition. Think about it: The internet is awash with threats, insults and the creepiest forms of paranoia I have ever seen based on a non-issue. This is what happens when one loses touch with history and the present and begins groupthinking themselves into mob mentality. You begin to alienate a class of people based on fantasy....and you make a supreme ass of yourself. Education on the subject would have prevented this hairball from hell from ever being coughed up. So, in closing, all of this raging and tar and feathering of people -especially women/feminists- is perhaps one of the strangest social phenomenas I have ever witnessed in my life due to lack of education. People are actually throwing their career potential away, making damning documentaries on women discussing tropes (tropes, for god's sake!), harassing and stalking feminist targets, dedicating so much time and effort into "fighting feminism" and "protecting video games". It's the most insane thing I have ever seen and, frankly, the most ignorant past-time I have ever seen such a large part of a population embrace. Have you all looked at yourselves? It's appallingly foolish. Feminism is the pursuit of equality between sexes in terms of employment, pay and social position. Nothing else. Trust me when I predict that egg on certain faces will be next year's unwashable embarrassment when thousands of people figure out just how ridiculous they looked in August 2014 over the internet. [i]A country without a memory is a country of madmen.[/i] -George Santayana

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          • Perhaps you might want to take a look on what the Feminist movement is REALLY about. A lot of people look toward the Feminazi's (so I like to call them) that bash men for even being attracted to women or even mentioning you are a guy. That is NOT what it is about. The feminist movement is for equality among the sexes, plain and simple. The biggest example of the shit we see is probably romantic life for men and women. Oh, you dated 5 women over the course of a month? Hot damn, look at you stud! vs Oh, you dated 5 men over the course of a month? You must be ashamed of yourself you slut! Did you know Feminism also fights for men? Its true, men embrace feminism so that they don't have to worry about being "Unmanly" or for "acting like a girl" Its demeaning to both men and women when you use insults like that. I am a guy myself, and feminism helped me understand that I may have some feminine qualities and I might be more attracted to those sorts of interests, but that doesn't make me any less of a man, no, a person. I am all for equal rights, but not for "I should be treated better than you!" Gaming we play don't have to change though, I agree. It is really up to the developer to make a game that attracts the target audience. There are games out there with strong feminine characters, and don't over sexualize women. Those kind of games will attract people who want to see those traits in a game, and over time as sales for kinds of games go up, more games like it will follow suit. It is a change, yes, but you will still get the games you like, its just that there will be more games that don't express as much sexual and male dominant roles out there along side those games. Change is good. Scary, but still good. Gamers complain every day for new things, new stories and new characters. So don't complain when a game developer announces a game that has a Strong feminine lead character, be happy for the developer for taking that step. If you are unhappy with what your favorite game developer is making, then just don't buy the game, simple as that. Hope you all weren't too bored by this rant of mine, and if you reached the bottom here, thank you for reading what I have to say.

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            • >feminism >threat Pick one.

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            • Seeing all these comments of people supporting OP is unbelievable. If you honestly think feminism or more female friendly games are a problem, then you are the cancer festering within the industry. Feminism isn't attacking the gaming industry, you are corrupting it from the inside.

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              • http://i.imgur.com/upXOBvI.gif

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                • As a feminist, I can't figure out whether I should censor you or bully you first. The struggle is real. In any case, I'm not sure that our day of reckoning is all that close, but I do believe it is inevitable-- which is enough consolation.

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                  • Edited by Strazol: 8/30/2014 11:26:20 AM
                    Take your ignorant and bigoted ass to Mars. Earth will be better off without you, trust me.

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                  • Shut up you blaming neck beard go back to 4chan with that ignorance.

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                    • Top to bottom your full of shit. None of your argument means anything. Your crying why?

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                      • Feminists come in many different flavors in the same way if you were to ask a person who is a "republican" what they believe varies differently from others. However, the social justice "warriors" see an opportunity to attack a new media and use it for their own agenda (which just so happens is not gaming related). They take something good and co-op it. And some of these people are just down right vipers like Anita Sarkeesian. She posed as a female gamer who had real concerns about the industry. Come to find out she's not a gamer or even [i]likes [/i]video games. She saw it as an opportunity to push her agenda. These people are cancer.

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                        • What????? This just sounds like paranoia girls gaming is a good thing. Feminist may push for things but that won't change what games are or who buys them. If certain people find things offensive I suggest they don't buy it.

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                          • [quote]If it succeeds, video games will never be the same again.[/quote] Awesome. I'll be counting the days.

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                            • Feminism isn't a threat to gaming, it might actually help it. Less women wearing pieces of paper as clothing, more variety and customization in characters and more original games instead of "buff white spec ops guy fights Russians" You just sound paranoid and afraid of change to gaming Also, consider that most feminists aren't overly sensitive cry babies, but the ones who are are totally ripped apart for it for no good reason (Anita sarkeesian- stated a valid fact about gaming and was publicly humiliated but why?)

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                              • There's nothin to worry about feminists have no right to exist in a first world country

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                                • Feminists and feminism is not a threat to gaming. People just want an online experience that doesn't involve tons of people harassing women to no end (factually happens), and an offline experience that doesn't constantly degrade women as sex objects, hopeless and constant victims, or as designated punching bags. People want this to apply to race and culture as well (name a fighting game in a modern setting that doesn't portray a Native American as a 19th century or earlier stereotype), but those issues aren't as prominent in regards to how women are treated, and it doesn't tend to follow others outside the game as readily. They want to make gaming better. For everyone. This doesn't mean porn is suddenly disappear or become illegal. It doesn't mean you'll be harangued for winning a match of Tekken against a female character. It doesn't mean video games are going to have lesser quality storytelling, gameplay, or aesthetics (in fact, a good portion of that might actually improve, what with writers not leaning so heavily on the same old ideas). The old games with these issues wont become contraband. Franchises will continue. Gaming is not under threat. Old bad habits within gaming are. Let them go.

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                                  • Edited by banj0: 8/30/2014 9:45:27 AM
                                    The scenarios you are suggesting are unsubstantiated diatribe that have likely come from fleeting thoughts you felt the need to elaborate on, without actually analyzing them in any meaningful way. Remove video games and substitute them with education, voting rights, whatever - the notion that the existence of women that enjoy video games will lead to censorship is nothing short of absurd. Hiding your disturbed insecurities behind a hobby that appears to have consumed you is pathetic. [quote] I love women[/quote] Not a chance.

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                                  • Edited by Eternity: 8/31/2014 12:18:40 PM
                                    I have to admit, it took me awhile to convince myself that this isn't a troll thread. I'm not sure what your problem is - do you actually, seriously, believe that the vast majority of video game main characters should be male? Do you not care that the vast majority of female characters in video games are used as little more than a 'reward' or a cliched plot device (female character dies at start --> inspires revenge plot, female character is kidnapped at start --> inspires rescue plot, etc)? That female characters are often portrayed as wearing bikinis, shoes, and nothing more, even when they are supposed to be warriors, competing with male counterparts who are rocking full plate mail? I don't even know where to start - nor do I care to bother. Suffice to say, we live in a market driven economy. Regardless of what actual percentage of gamers you think are female, it has been a rapidly growing demographic for years, and certainly makes up a material share of global games markets today. What you're seeing is female gamers who are clearly not satisfied with their utterly unrealistic, completely offensive, teen-boy's-wet-dream style of portrayal across the board - they have every right to make it known that they disapprove of this and will be less likely to purchase new games which portray women in this manner . This is a literal exact example of what you claim is vanishing - content being determined by what appeals to the people who purchase the games. Your second to last paragraph (prior to the edit) seems to indicate a belief that games are only for men, and women should be excluded on that basis. I actually can't believe what I'm reading - somehow you've managed to create a more offensive and ignorant post than almost any other I've yet seen on this forum. Disappointing, yet somehow not surprising...

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                                    • Japan does not give a rat's -blam!- about the current wave of SJW bloggers making up a small fraction of the gaming audience demanding to be catered to in America and in smaller part England/Canada. Since the Japanese have always been the leaders of the game industry and still make the best games today, I really see no reason for concern even if this farcical crusade by "feminists" becomes more than a small grassroots movement in the meta-industry.

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                                      • Sexism is the same as homophobia or racism. You don't understand it because you've never had to--it doesn't directly affect you. Sexism in gaming is rampant and I can't stand it anymore. Same goes for casual racism. It's totally rampant and your sheltered privileged view prevents it from making a noticable impact on you, meanwhile you soak it up like a sponge.

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                                        • Edited by vIRL Nightmare: 8/29/2014 7:58:14 PM
                                          To clear up a misconception people have, there is nothing wrong with true feminism. Feminism is supposed to be about the equal (not superior) right of women to men, and that's cool I'm down with the clown on that. What a lot of people have a problem with, that you have described, that a lot of women who call them selves feminist *cough* Zoe Quinn *cough* is Misandry. It's a word that popped up in the ninteenth century and it's the same thing as Misogyny, but with a woman being a culprit not a man. There's a difference between, "can a woman's body armor be more breast plate and less breast", and, "all men are inherently Misogynists and no matter what they say or do I'm right I'm the victim and the man -blam!- me by breathing in the same room as me". Your doomsday concern will never come to be though. At the end of the day all games are slaved to their narrative and story writers will always write the story they want and sorry but The Last of Us will always be best as a fatherish daughterish story and nothing says space marine like an impossibly large man with muscles so large he has no neck. Rather I believe we're going to end up seeing more diversity in games then an oppression of what we already like. More options are all ways good. As a bonus thought it's odd spell check knows what misogyny is but not misandry and I find this far more fascinating then I should.

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