originally posted in:The Beautiful Bastards
I got the impression that you think you will be clearing raid on first or second day of try and that you think you can defeat first boss in 45 minutes the first time you try, is that right?
Cuz that's just bullshit =D
Be ready for loooong days of just training with your static group
English
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I think that normal mode will be easier than people think the true challenge will come from the hardmodes, this is where people will spend an entire week to kill one boss. Now that is not to say that every group will be clearing the raid the 1st week. Most groups will prob only clear half of it with around 2 days of 3 hour raids (6 hours of raiding). Also these groups that I am talking about are groups that have 6 people that actually played enough to get to level 25 the 1st week. Those people will most likely be some kind of decent and driven to raid the 1st week. Getting ready for the raid will be the hard part of the normal raid. I may be way wrong on that kind of hope I am. The 2nd week is where you will see you "casual" groups start really diving into raids and now they will prob take 9-12 hours of raiding to finish the full normal raid. Whether they raid that much is up to them. Extra info on my mind set....I do come from a raiding background in WOW and FFXIV where I raided 3-4 nights 4 hours each night... I dont plan on raiding that much anymore but that is the kind of groups that will be clearing it the 1st week.
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If you di know FFXIV raids you know that they last 6 month for a great bunch of community and you know how much time passed after launch before clearing T5. Here it won't be the same but I think it will be a comparable scale. After all they need hard mode to last for majority of player until December. A raid is a raid for the puzzle it has in it. If well done can easily keep players from easy defeat. But I don't have solid bases to tell how much difficult they will be, it's just my hope
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When it comes to Hardmode I dont think its inconceivable to spend 5-7 hours per boss. Hardmodes will most likely punish one mistake so much that if someone dies it will cause a full wipe.
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5-7h per boss? You mean the first time you do it? First time will take dozens of h of training before the winning run
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[quote]When it comes to Hardmode I dont think its inconceivable to spend 5-7 hours per boss. Hardmodes will most likely punish one mistake so much that if someone dies it will cause a full wipe.[/quote] Dude I'm not sure what you're expecting out of this raid, but it won't be 5-7 hours per boss. They've said after you've completed it you should be able to do the [b]entire[/b] raid in under 3 hours
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I am talking about the Hardmodes of the bosses. In most games that have a normal and hardmode bosses they add multiple different abilities, double the bosses health, or they add entire phases to the fights. When companies put normal and hardmodes they want the people that actually do get a group of 6 to have a fairly good chance of seeing all the content. The hardmodes are there for the elite groups that want a true challenge. That is why I said you may spend many many hours on the Hardmodes but only the 1st time you beat that hardmode boss. But yes after you have completed it once it wont take you any time. Its all about the learning curve...
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I understand what you're saying, but it still won't take anywhere near that amount of time. You'll be able to complete the raid in one sitting even in hard mode. Now it might take 7 or 8 hours, but it will be doable.
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Yes, after 2-3 months when you have the equip and the experience to do it
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I don't think it will take that long. A month maybe. MAYBE six weeks. People are going to whizz through this game because they'll play 60 hours a week [spoiler]sad but true[/spoiler]
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1) someone will be much faster yes, this don't means that it's big chunk of community 2) i'd bet the 2 best equipments (except exotic weapons) that will let you get your lvl real high will be locked by either a) a coin you can get a limited amount each week, or b) raids midbosses with weekly lockout I dubt that regardless by the amount of time you invest you can get to 30 much faster than others
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Yeah that's true. The question boils down to whether you'll need the absolute best gear to finish. I don't think you'll need all of it only because I think some of it will drop so rarely. I do think you'll have to use gear you get from earlier bosses in the raid though
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Even with gear raids should still be a good timesinker especially in extreme
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Understood. In my opinion I still think it will only take 4-7 hours for the whole raid. MMO guys are building it up too much and fps guys aren't giving it enough credit. Just my two cents
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^ This. I expect it will take some getting used to for the FPS players to adjust to the length, but I also think the MMO guys are just setting themselves up for a [b]MASSIVE[/b] letdown in overthinking it and having their expectations set too high. I understand it will require co-ordination and training, but at the end of the day it will be designed to cater to both genres so it won't be short, but it wont be an absolutely huge time sink either.
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if that is the case this game is doomed since it NEEDS a timesink
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I think the time sink is Hardmode and the FPS part of it (Crucible). The reason I say hardmode is the time sink, if I am correct and the bosses levels in hardmode are going to be level 30 and maybe 31-32 for the last ones in the raid, level 27-28 will be decently easy to get to but that final 29 and 30 will take you 4-5 weeks to get. You will need for hardmodes... 1. Full normal raid set (may not fill all gear slots) 2. Have remaining slots filled with legendaries from faction venders 3. Maybe most important everyone in the group will need Multiple weapons in each slot that are maxed out and have different types of damage. To keep mobs controlled your team will need to very quickly take out shielded mobs and will require people to have the correct weapons to burn though shields.
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A lot of what you're saying just really depends on how easy/hard it is to get loot. Basically I mean the rate at which it will drop. I'm sure for the raids it will be specific gear that will drop, but we don't know how the strikes will drop. The nightfall stuff (I think) will be vitally important if you want to gear up early on. The exact same thing when buying from vendors: it just depends on how quickly you'll be able to find quality gear. As for your 3rd point: I totally agree. I think the elemental damage is going to be something a lot of people overlook and will be crucial on both modes of the raid. This could actually be the hardest part to gear up for. Not only do you have to find the weapon with the right elemental damage, but then you have to level it up. The higher level weapons also have a ton of different options you'll have to level up as well.
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If decently easy is not 1 day and you are talking about the first kill yeah, more or less
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Ya the T5 dragon boss was crazy but the raid I was in got to that boss very quickly cleared 3 bosses the 1st night of 2.5 hours then it did take 4 hours for the T4 boss we were a little under geared (but that will be the biggest bottle neck in Destiny at the start also). Now if I remember correctly the reason it took that guild soo long to kill that dragon was bc of the tornado mechanic seemed buggy and inconsistent. Also the gear requirement to kill that dragon was sooo much steeper than all the other bosses you need what a min of 5k hp which was that T2 items. So the only reason you wont kill all the NORMAL bosses in Destiny the 1st week will be because of that one boss is is over tuned.
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You joined a party already trained up to T5. That's not gonna happen in destiny. All party will start from 0. Many complained about twisters but T5 first kill come with the first twisters setup. They then tuned them down. But leaving entering a already trained group aside, right now if you enter T5 trough DF (aka MM) after twister got easiest up more, you have a boost to HP damage and heals, only mechanics left to watch out for are twisters and divebombs and it's supposed that whole community knows it after 1 year from release winning it is just 90% of times
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The group I was talking about is a group of my friends. We started raiding together back in Burning Crusade in WOW. It was the 1st time that we stepped foot in the FFXIV raid and we killed those bosses. Now we have been raiding together for 7 years so we all know each other very well so that is why it went really smooth. Also we started playing FFXIV about a month after it came out so we did know what abilities the bosses had but we didnt have a strat on how to deal with those abilities so we still had to come up with our own strat. Your right it wont be that way in Destiny for me because those friends dont like FPS so they are not going to play. So I wont know the people I am raiding with and that will add some hours to Vault.
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so you started play one month later then? And when more or less you beated t1-t2 (i get you count t1 as 2 bosses)? T2 you used enrage strategy i'd suppose right?
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We are way off subject but we started raiding about a month after most groups because we didnt start playing when the game came out. But no I dont count the mini boss as a boss T1 was the boss with platfourms it was a joke took 3 attempts. Remember since we were a month later we did know what the bosses did so that did make it easier we didnt have to figure out the fine details of the boss. T2 was considerably harder took around 2 hour to beat that was because of one person that couldnt get their shit together and would never move with the debuff. Getting past the mini bosses was really easy. T3 cant consider it a boss we had no idea what to actually do and still beat it the 1st time but that was bc it was the T3 "Boss." The T4 boss now that was much harder had to come back another day bc we didnt have anymore time in the raid and that boss was hard I will say that. This is really off subject so I am not going to post on this anymore unless we bring it back to relating to Destiny.