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originally posted in:The Beautiful Bastards
originally posted in: Raid Difficulty Thoughts
8/22/2014 9:46:22 PM
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I stopped after something to do with time. My question is how long do u expect a raid to do? Its not gonna be a 3day event where u guys can take breaks mid-raid. Unless ive missed some info. I honestly dont see raids lasting over 2-3hours tops.
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  • You know they've said the first time you go in you won't be able to clear it, right? Do you play to have Light gear all the way up to 27-28 before you try? Because as he's said in the videos, while a raid may start at level 25, it won't end there. Which means you can expect it to be higher. And unless you have the Light level to get you within range, you won't even be able to damage level 29 mobs as a lvl 24-25 worth anything. Deej even mentioned there will be checkpoints that you can leave and come back to later (as in another day). Probably a weekly reset like most Raids do. Maybe less, maybe more, nothing said in concrete as far as that yet. But if they're allowing checkpoints so you can completely leave and come back, do you think they'd waste time putting that function if it wasn't needed by a majority of raiders? I think you're underestimating and quite possibly don't have much Raid experience? In my raid experience, with new content, you may not even beat the first boss your first week. You need all the people to learn the strategy of the trash on the way there, and then to figure out the boss, and put it all together. In most raiding scenarios, when you meet a new boss, you don't beat them your first night. Any good raids anyways.

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  • Good points this is the reason for a discussion like this. The fact is we don't know its just good to hear everyone's thoughts on it to help make up the best solution for what we have to go on. Keep it up. You have already made me thing about a few things I forgot to mention like trash mobs between bosses.

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  • I have enough raid experience tbh. I dont plan on personally going in weak. If im not ready gear wise for a raid, its a waste of my time. If i dont have time to finish it, i wont start it because then its a waste of my raid partners time. I dont think im going to be ready to raid be the end of week one tbh. Maybe not even by week 2. Idk playing the waiting game, after launch ill be more than satisfied regardless

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  • If you have raid experience (I'm not talking about Looking for Raid, I'm talking about pre-planned Clan raiding) then you'd know better.

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  • I didnt WoW too much tbh, but Destiny raids r gonna be 6 people? Compared to the 32(?correct me if im wrong) on wow. They shouldnt be like [i][b]intense[/b][/i] but they should be a challenge. I have players for launch that ive gamed with for years now. Im sure we will finish a raid without having to quit it and level or regear. Need to approach it right. But dont need to sit and study every move like some Dark Souls tbhh

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  • [quote]I didnt WoW too much tbh, but Destiny raids r gonna be 6 people? Compared to the 32(?correct me if im wrong) on wow. They shouldnt be like [i][b]intense[/b][/i] but they should be a challenge. I have players for launch that ive gamed with for years now. Im sure we will finish a raid without having to quit it and level or regear. Need to approach it right. But dont need to sit and study every move like some Dark Souls tbhh[/quote] Original raids were 40 players, not that it matters or not. That went down to 10 man raids and 25 man raids. But they were more chaotic then intense most of the time. It was all about knowing what to do, where to stand... The tank can take all the damage, healers keep tank and group alive, dps do crowd control and interrupts as needed. Everybody had their part BUT it was mostly turned based so it was also semi-controlled. Destiny's primary job is being a shooter, everything else comes 2nd, so honestly I think it will be more intense. People's job will be really different than games like WoW. Striker, VoidWalker, Bladedancers appear to be there to kill hordes of Enemy with their supers. Gunslinger is the only true single target damage dealer with their super so they'll mostly be targeting strong targets to kill of eat down their health. Defender is the true support in the game, needed for raids it am sure. Their shields don't just grant damage reduction but depending on spec causes team members to do more damage or take less damage. Being more armored they will also get in the middle of enemy hordes more, weakening them while teammates pick them off from afar. Wouldn't depend on them keeping health up very long though. Sunsinger in raid should have Song of Flame equipped for raids, being a support allows team mates to use Supers more often. They have a little bit of self survival and their super makes their grenades and melee much more powerful from what we seen in videos. They add a constant damage presence to the team. This is my point of view of it anyway.

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  • good insight. Destiny raid could be a lot different than wow and I have been basing much of my info off of MMOs

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  • [quote]good insight. Destiny raid could be a lot different than wow and I have been basing much of my info off of MMOs[/quote] That is mainly what we got to go off of. I never something like this in a shooter so it's not easy to compare, so have to think along the lines of what we seen. The thing that amazes me how smart Bungie did that. If you played Defiance they tried to make it an MMO shooter, and they way they did made it fall short. The game has a identity crisis, it didn't know it wanted to be MMORPG or shooter like making areas fall short. Bungie decided they wanted a shooter and built everything it. MMORPGs - stats make a huge difference. How much damage you can take, how much damage you can... Ect. To be true to a shooters stats have to do more with things that deal with a shooter world. The damage you take and give depends more on your ability to aim and ability to take cover and recover. Bungie uses Armor on gear, level, and weapon damage to help create milestones to progress through game, but it stops there (also why crucible only equalizes those three stats only so everybody is close to equal ground.) So class stats adjust commonly used shooter features. 1) How much health you have or how much damage you take 2). How quickly your shield fields up 3) how fast you can sprint and how high you can jump. Ability stats allow you to instead of doing more damage, focuses on how quickly you can do abilities again. How just your super recharges depends on how much you help the ground by killing and the use of supers. I think they balanced things really well for shooters skills being the main focus. By making the player make different choices to effect how they play with their builds and the stats they choice to focus on.

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  • Yes Bungie has done a great job melding the 2 genres together. Cant wait to see how raids actually develop maybe they wont resemble anything like other MMOs. Like you said we have to go with what we know to speculate on. 9/9

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  • If you have a raid of 32 people, divide the 100% of raid stuff needing done, each person is responsible for about 3% of the raid, give or take. People can be carried. Certain, better geared and better skilled players, can make up where others lack or just don't show up. If you have a raid of 6 people, you're looking at roughly 18% of the raid depending on each person. Less of a chance of people being carried and also succeeding in the raid. To eventually beat the raid, it isn't a bad idea to go in and start, kill the first boss, and try the second out. Just because you can't beat it doesn't mean you're weak or under geared, some things just require practice.

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  • If said boss has 75mil health. And your 600dmg weapon is only hitting for 220(completely random numbers), its a problem. Thats usually due to under leveling. So me and my group plan to be ready to finish the raid after we start it, unless it just so happens we get near the end and we get smacked. Then itll be break and regear time. If gear upgrades are even possible(maxing out essentials for specific boss fights). I just dont expect the average group to take an insane amount of time on every raid. Like i said i dont expect to even be able to do one within maybe the first 2 weeks after release, idk its all unknown to me. Its a new game lol

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  • Getting as close to the level of the bosses will be the biggest DPS boost you can acquire. I want to go into this raid the 1st week because if you dont give it a try you will never know how close you are to actually beating the boss. If there is a lock out where you can only get loot from the bosses once a week then you are shooting yourself in the foot by missing out on possibility of loot, putting yourself behind the ones that tried, even if they kill only 1 or 2 bosses.

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  • Ya the light level requirement will def be the reason that you cant beat the bosses the 1st week. I don't know how loot will work in raids either does each person get one engram? is it random 2 items drop for 2 random people? not sure on that. There is a statement by Luke Smith, I will find it and post it at the bottom, he says that the hardcore groups will beat the raid the 1st week. If you can get to level 26-27 with raid gear and other legionaries then you will be able to kill all the bosses the 1st week with about 6 hours of work at it. Also I should mention this in the main post but this is 6 hours of bosses if there is a solid hour of trash between the bosses then that 14 hours may be a lot closer I think they have added checkpoint into the game because maybe that is the only way to save your progress with that group... this could mean that they don't plan on having a weekly lock out just a group save? But that save may only stay there for a week. That I truly don't know but like raiding in WOW they didn't need check points bc if you had to stop you could just stop anywhere because it saves your progress at all points. When it comes to new content, yes there is a learning curve. Therefore I cant really comment on that because all groups will have different skill levels and therefore different learning curves. Remember that we are talking about people that have leveled to at least 25 to get into the raids week one so I would imaging that those groups will have much faster learning curves than the average groups. Just to let you know that I do have a lot of raiding experience I raided in WoW starting in Burning Crusade where I raided in a guild called Stasis where we where ranked 250th in the world in Sunwell up to Mu'Ru. Sadly Mu'Ru killed our alliance not enough tanks lol. That was my hardcore raiding experience we raided 4 nights a week 4 hours a night. I slowed down raiding in the other expansions only raiding 2-3 nights 3 hours a night did have the time anymore. With that said I dont think that raiding in Destiny will be as hard as Burning Crusade in WoW. I am basing this off of the fact there there are hardmodes. When they have hardmodes they cant make the normal mode so impossibly hard otherwise there would not be a big enough difference between the two.

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  • Leave any hope to clear a raid in 2-3 days the first time you try. Once you are exped in it will take you 2-3h i suppose

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  • Im thinking 3-4 hours for a raid and I completley agree on harder difficulties that lv 32, maybe even 33 could be a possibility

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  • The 1st week I do think it will take 3-4 hours maybe up to 5-6 hours because you wont have the best gear yet. Your team may not have a bad ass weapon of each type of damage to help your team burn though shielded mobs that are giving you problems. Also, I have done alot of raiding in other games and when your group is learning a boss it takes considerably more time than the next time you see that boss. The other thing is if there is a raid lock out and how long that lock out is. Most raids that have lock outs are usually a week long where you can only kill a raid boss once a week. If this is not the case then raiding gear will be alot easier to come by helping you progress through the harder bosses quicker.

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  • This article quotes that raids will have a weekly reset.

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  • Yep agreed with that too. But even by the time u get to do raids you have an understanding of the game mechanics. Thats end game material. Theyre gonna be more grind time really unless its actually difficult and follows a good guide with lifes/respawns (being limited) and lock outs. I think people would be upset for a week lock out though tbh

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  • Ya I never liked the aspect that I can only do a raid once a week but that is how alot of games out there are based on. I love to do raids always have and I really liked how it worked in the raid finder raids in World of Warcraft where you could do the raids as many times during the week but could only get loot off of each boss once a week. So if you wanted to help our some friends but already ran it that week you could still do the bosses but couldn't get loot off of it until it reset next week. Personally I hope you can chain run them if that is what you want to do with ur time.

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  • You'll be able to go through the raid as many times as you'd like, but the loot will only be given once a week and will then reset. I'm thinking you'll still be able to get a bunch of engrams throughout the raid though no matter how many times a week you could run through it

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  • Has that been confirmed? I really really hope you can run it as many times as you want makes it so much easier to get good groups together late in the week. When you clan has an "A team" that has already cleared all the raid for the week then those people if they want can help other groups or friends in their raids.

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  • Yeah it has. I'd try to find a source for you, but it came out when there was just a mess of different things going on with the raid

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  • Someone posted it somewhere so I made a post at the top with that link. Thank you

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