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originally posted in:The Beautiful Bastards
7/30/2014 6:00:50 PM
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No offense, but that really wasn't a breakdown. It was more of a "Hey guys. I like the Hunter, here's why." You didn't really compare it to anything, not fairly anyway. Plus, I don't think there is a "Ultimate class" as each class has a purpose in this game, as they are all supposed to support each other. This game wasn't built with Lone Wolfing in mind, it was designed as a team based FPS/Loot&Shoot/Rpg mix that promotes teamwork. I'm not bashing the Hunter, as being covered by a sniper is always comforting. Every class has a purpose, a role, something special about it. I hope people come to see this. Hunters shouldn't run into combat. They should cover Titans and Warlocks, pick off vehicles and snipe the living hell out of anyone unlucky enough to fall into their crosshairs. Titans are tanks, and warlocks are support. Don't snipe as a Titan, don't go into CQC with a Hunter. Use your class correctly, and your team will be much happier.
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  • What do you expect from "a beautiful bastard" I'm surprised he didn't post "BREAKING NEWS" and then proceed to tell us the game launches on September 9th.

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  • +1

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  • It would appear that you are misjudging the reality of how these classes are built. The Titan is not necessarily a tank, the warlock is not necessarily support, and the hunter is not necessarily a ranged damager. The proof of this is in the Ways and Paths that can be selected for every class. These ways and paths dramatically change the way your character is set up. That being said, hunters are just as effective for a team right up front with a fusion rifle and hand cannon as titans or warlocks, that is the whole idea behind this games structure. Supporting your team means knowing how to synergize the skills you have selected in your subclass, not filling the role you are "meant" to fill. Let go of your preconceived notions and try playing outside the box on this game, otherwise you will completely miss the point.

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  • ? So, if each class can do what others can with no consequence, why are there classes? Surely in that case, it would be more efficient to have one class, with multiple skill trees? No. Classes are built with the notion of a role. I'm not saying a Hunter cannot go into CQC, but if you want to be up close, use a Titan. Its more built for close quarters. I never said you cannot go outside the role your class was built around, but surely if you wanted to snipe, playing as a Hunter would be much better? There are minor things that each class has which puts them ahead in a certain role. Titans better armor or the Hunters better Agility. The classes aren't saying "YOU CAN ONLY SNIPE", they're saying "If you want to snipe, this is going to be the best option." These aren't preconceived notions at all. Yes, a Hunter can do well up close. But why not pick something better suited for it? That's my arguement. Its annoying to see people pick a Hunter because of the cloak, to then run forward. If you want to be better up close, pick a Titan.

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  • You are now my favorite guardian.

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  • Lynx or me?

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  • You , I hadn't thought of classes that way, in games like battlefield where each class really is just telling you how to play. Like putting a kid in a sandbox where he can only use a bucket.

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  • +1

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  • Okay, you aren't even paying attention. If you had played a hunter at all, or just looked at their skills in their blade dancer subclass, you would see that it is far more geared for being out front in the middle of all the action. The utility of every class comes in the different ways it can be used. As I said before, there are no roles, only what your team needs at the time. Who says someone needs to have a sniper rifle in the first place? That is a role You are assigning through your preconceived notions. Also, if you haven't noticed, the gear all has the same stats at similar levels, the only thing that changes is how your character uses them. Again, depending on the WAYS and PATHS (codex for titans) that you choose, you become more capable of taking damage, or moving faster, or recovering faster.

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  • You could bring a sniper into a room full of unaware guys in BF4. You could optimize said sniper for CQC. Red dot sight, laser sight and a straight pull bolt. The Sniper could indeed kill everyone in the room. But, if you bring a Shotgun, you'd have a much better chance. Sometimes, instead of thinking outside the box, you need to use what you've got inside the box. While the Hunter does have a sub class that help it for Mid range/ CQC, the Titan has a much better stat line for CQC. A better special, a better melee and a perks in that given class. But if you have something built around being up close and personal from the start, I don't see why you would pick something that isn't. If every class could do every roll equally, there wouldn't be any classes. There would only be a set of very diverse skill trees and gear for them. I'm not saying there SHOULD be a sniper, but it would help as a sniper has its roles. It does somethings better than other weapons. Just like some classes somethings better than other classes. And hey, sometimes giving someone a role does help. I played in a three man fireteam where we had roles. A long rage Hunter, who could cover us. A Titan who would breach and clear, and a warlock who helped both out. Roles help keep a team together (Or so I found.)

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  • Case and point in this video direct from Bungie lead design. Pay special attention to the 1:07 mark, but watch the whole video. Destiny Raids, Nightfall Missions Detailed http://m.ign.com/videos/2014/07/30/destiny-raids-nightfall-missions-detailed

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  • I believe what you are referring to is tactical strategy, which is wholly dependent on player skill, not the class they are playing as. Your comparison to BF4 is not apples to apples, because the recon class is the only one capable of carrying the sniper rifle. The roles in BF4 are implied by the class you choose because of the things each can use that all the others cannot. In Destiny, the factor that exhibits a players desired play style is the weapons they choose to being into the fight, not their class. Are there going to hunters that never carry sniper rifles? Yes. Are there going to be titans that always carry a sniper rifle? Absolutely. Are there going to be warlocks that are consistently out front? We all know there are. The reason for this is because the classes are all designed to be equally versatile in the face of them enemy. The choices are the players to make, and aren't decided by the class they choose to play as.

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  • Actually, I am saying a Hunter shouldn't go into CQC. Why would you? In the beta, there was no reason to. Why should a Titan snipe? It can't use any of its main abilities from a mile away.

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  • You only had access to half (at best) of each classes abilities, and likely didn't even come close to seeing all the choices within that which you did have access to. You have to see the whole picture.

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  • I can't load get the link, but I fully understand what you're saying. Each class has three sub-classes that allow it to change the way it can be used. The Hunter can switch from long range to mid range if it tunes itself for the specific purpose. Therefor, each class can fulfill a role in the team. I know. Hunters can pick blade dancer and go right ahead in to the midst of combat and preform okay. I also don't disagree that a skilled player can have a Hunter do really well up close. but in the Beta it was [i]pointless[/i]. Titans were geared up for CQC, and Hunters didn't have access to the bladedancer subclass yet. So in the Beta, you'd do better if you stuck to your role. Also, roles are kinda preset by yourself. You pick a role in the team as you pick gear and perks to best suit yourself, which in game is a role. You have a role to play in the team, no? While sometimes your team will require you to do something a bit different every now and again, if people stick to what they're role, and don't go around doing something someone else can do better, everything flows smoothly. That's the argument here. People will do stuff that doesn't make sense or doesn't make use of their abilities. Like it someone picked blade dancer then started sniping again, or if a Titan picked defender and solo'd everything. In the beta, the classes couldn't have the flexibility that they would have in the full game, so why the hell were Hunters running into close combat? That's what Titans are there for. My BF4 comparison wasn't comparing Destiny to BF4, it was more or less saying "You can outfit a weapon not designed for a role to do a different role, from long range to mid range. But a weapon meant for mid range will always do better" meaning, you could outfit a Hunter for CQC, But a Titan could do it better. Also, what class you pick does have a lot to do with how you play and the choices you'll have to make. You pick a class to suit your play style or to fill a role in a team. So, you'll be having a different experience with each class. TL:DR: People should try and use what they have to the best of their abilities, don't use a subclass (or class setup) meant for long range, then go straight for the close combat. Because that's stupid, and all you'll do is make your team more likely to lose.

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  • "Titans are tanks, and warlocks are support. Don't snipe as a Titan, don't go into CQC with a Hunter. Use your class correctly, and your team will be much happier." Is what you said in your initial post. That is different than what you are saying now. People not playing well is not the same thing as people not playing the [i]the right way[/i]. The point is there is no right way here, and everyone can do everything, and will be required to be able to do everything in the raiding content. Also, I'm not talking about the beta, I'm talking about the full game. The beta is no longer relevant, and I would argue never was in this discussion, as it was a mere piece of what the final title will have. Bottom line, there isn't a [i]correct[/i] way to use your class.

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  • That initial statement was talking about the beta. I must've forgot to put that there during my rant. Yes. There is a difference between people playing well, and people using their class to the best of its abilities. The people doing good could do better. Thats the difference. There isn't a correct way to use your class. But you probably should use it to the best of its abilities. If you're using a Hunter with a subclass meant for long range? Don't go into CQC.

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  • I see it like this. The gunslinger subclass is meant to take advantage of precision shooting, which does not equal range by any means. You get headshots with a scout rifle just as easy as you can with a hand cannon, or a knife attack. The only difference is the effect gained by trying to be more accurate. The Titan and warlock are both equally as effective with the scout rifle, hand cannon, pulse rifle, or whatever, the difference is play style. Hence the argument that, classes do not equal roles and responsibilities in this game. Playing a class to the best of its abilities means supporting the team dynamic however you can. As to the reasoning behind the classes, I have a scenario that should make my stance more clear. Let's say we are developers at Bungie. We are having our quarterly team meeting to decide on a new project. In this meeting we decide we want to make a new game that will have team based combat objectives as a central theme. The best way to do that, and stand out from the crowd, is to have different character types that all have strengths and weaknesses. But, because there is going to be huge portions of the game that can be completed by individuals by themselves, those character types need to be able to handle it. To do that, we decide that all the character types will be able to use all the weapons. All the character types will be able to survive any situation regardless if they are playing in a team or not. So, we decide to have three different character types, with different lore, gear, and attacks. We split the devs into team Titan, team hunter, and team warlock to develop their character types and they come back with what they come back with. Again, the emphasis is on being able to manage solo, or group play, and still be fun to play. Players should not be locked into "hey you are X, you have to go stand over there and do Y." Bada bing bada boom, Destiny is born! That's how these things work, and why Destiny breaks the rules applied by so many others in how players are [i]supposed to play. [/i]

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  • I gotcha now. Looking back on what I said, I think I was being far too defensive on everything. As someone who is trying to be mature on the forums, I think I let myself down there. I'm sorry that we had to argue about it, when you're stance makes much, much more sense. Sorry again.

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  • No need to apologize in any way, we were enjoying a debate on a topic which we both have strong opinions. I'm not offended in the least, nor do I feel that my position is better than anyone else's. We were both mature and have valid points.

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  • Wait. Can we do this on the Internet? Apologize and stuff.

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  • Well, you're a pro, and I'm a pro as well. If say we are interwebs pros, and being pros it's our responsibility to be good role models for the children. For the children!!!!

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  • Point taken. FOR ZE CHILDREN.

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  • All in all, I think these are not conversations Bungie was hoping for when they came up with Destiny on that acid trip in Vegas. We should both be commended, and given special access to the game and all future Bungie games. Just a thought.

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  • Bungie works in weird ways. I never know what Bungie are thinking. It must have been some good acid to think up a the classic line 'ITS A WIZARD FROM TEH MOON'

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