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Destiny

Discuss all things Destiny.
Edited by Magic Air: 8/1/2014 1:46:47 AM
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No raid matchmaking? Ridiculous.

My original post is here: http://pastebin.com/BL75R0Fs - but in case you haven't heard, it was confirmed yesterday that there is no matchmaking for raids; 'friends-only'. [b]Update: So, we have the update from Luke Smith, Raid Design Lead. The quote of which you can see at the bottom of this post. I'd also like to outline a few simple points here.[/b] [b]Firstly, if Bungie do not support raid matchmaking, players will find a way to do it themselves.[/b] People everywhere are already resorting to swapping gamertags/psn over forums. This isn't 'hardcore clanship', this is matchmaking in its simplest form. People everywhere are resorting to joining clans specifically for the purpose of raiding. Again, this isn't 'hardcore clanship', this is random people joining other random people specifically for the purpose of raiding. This is matchmaking in its simplest form. [b]This isn't people forming guild like bonds in order to conquer with coordination and investment. This is people desperately joining up with whoever they can just so they can raid.[/b] You don't have to take my word for it, this is observable on any social gaming medium where there is an interest in Destiny right now; b.net, reddit, neogaf, and anywhere else you can think of. [b]Secondly, difficulty.[/b] It's all relative. What I deem 'very difficult' is not the same as what you deem 'very difficult'. Your idea of 'very difficult' may be equivalent to my idea of 'not so difficult' - the same holds true for one's sense of 'enjoyment' - if the raid requires 'dedication' in 'cooperation' and 'investment', these are not specifications that are inherent to 'friends'. These are the characteristics of those who choose to adopt said characteristics. It doesn't matter whether i'm in a clan, a random group, or with one of my 'friends'. If I want to communicate and invest my time, I will do so. The same can be said for any player, clan or none, group or none, lots of friends or no friends. [b]So then how is the 'barrier' that defines the raid as 'friends-only', determined by two characteristics that don't apply only to 'friends? It's not logical.[/b] It seems to me that Bungie's actual goal here is for the raid to be as inaccessible, and uncompleted, for as long as possible; to artificially extend the playtime of the game. It's true that this is simple conjecture. It's true that at this point in time it is merely my 'opinion', but it is the only logical explanation. [b]Thirdly, excuses.[/b] There are those who say that making the raid more accessible will encourage 'crying' from 'casuals' who can't handle the 'difficulty'. That raids are 'this' or 'that' and 'not for you'. If I want to attempt a raid I damn well bloody will. Raids are for everybody who has the balls to attempt them. And that's the point here, everybody and their mums are desperately joining up with anybody else, just to raid. It's not going to be 'hardcore groups', whatever that means, being the only ones who attempt it. It's going to be by hundreds, thousands, of those who simply chose to 'matchmake' regardless. As they are already doing. I wouldn't be surpised if the raid gets completed by a group who simply swapped their gamertags/psn on a forum right before the raid, and only met in-game upon entering the raid. At some point, Bungie will have to acknowledge it. At what difficulty somebody perceives the raid, is what will decide if somebody chooses to 'cry' to the forum. It doesn't have to be a 'casual', whatever that means, when most people are showing the commitment necessary to at least attempt the raid. Somebody who has joined a clan, or swapped their gamertag, or is playing with friends, will complain that the raid is too difficult, [b]if they want to[/b]. No amount of 'clan', 'friend', or 'hardcore' status will determine this for them. Somebody who wants to complain over difficulty, will indeed complain over difficulty, whether they're in a clan or not. This means that the more accessible the raid, or any aspect of the game, the more people will complain, because more people will be accessing it. It's that simple. It has nothing to do with 'clans' or 'friends' or 'casuals' or 'hardcore'. Complainers will complain, and more people means more complaints. [b]Fourth, longevity.[/b] Destiny is a franchise, the first of up to [b]four sequels[/b] and [b]four expansions[/b]. In a year's time, Destiny will be outdated by its expansion; after that, the sequel. This 'gear' you think you're entitled to for proclaiming yourself as 'hardcore', won't mean anything for any significant amount of time. You won't 'become legend' no matter how many times Bungie bangs it into your ears. On top of that, a dedicated player is a dedicated player; somebody who invests their time matchmaking and somebody who invests their time with 'friends' are equally invested. Whatever sense of entitlement you have for calling yourself 'hardcore' or playing with 'friends', is completely redundant. Dedication is determined by the player. Investment is determined by the player. Communication is determined by the player. Coordination is determined by the player. Difficulty is perceived by the player. Not 'friends'. Not matchmaking. Not 'clans'. [b][i]"This is not real life. You don't go into a raid, fail and die in real life like you would going for the peak of K2. This is a video game where if you lose you can try again and that's what every raider will do. Fail and fail and fail until they succeed. MM does not change that for anyone whether you choose to use it or not."[/i][/b] - kingofthejuice Update from Luke Smith, Raid Design Lead: [quote]Source: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=123373556&postcount=1085 I understand everyone's frustration about the decision to not have matchmaking in a post-matchmaking world. I also understand the limitations that this places on the activity's adoption at scale. That barrier to entry - the requirement that you get a group of people together and venture into something that is going to challenge your ability to work together (first) and your thumbs (second) - is a barrier I was willing to erect to preserve the activity goals. Bleeding edge hardcore groups will invest some significant amount of time in figuring out the encounters and making their way through the Vault. I fully expect groups to beat Normal mode in the first week its available. This is intentional, I'd like any group that is motivated and willing to cooperate to make their way through the Raid on Normal. I've talked some about thumbskill challenge vs. investment challenge vs. cooperation challenge in some interviews, and the Normal Raid difficulty prioritizes cooperation challenge and investment challenge. I expect Hard mode to take longer. Once your group learns the encounters, you will be able to get through the Raid significantly faster than 3 hours. However, the first time through, learning everything and arranging your group will take some hard-to-predict amount of time until some clan releases their strategies on YouTube. The Vault of Glass is in many ways an activity that will build groups from the disparate people who come together to try and make their way through it. It's very much a team-building exercise. If you're going to stream it this Fall, please feel free to let me know here. I'd love to tune in.[/quote]
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  • [quote]here's my take on it: [/quote] this game needs matchmaking for everything because it's a pain to even get a game going , one has to waste countless hours with various forums spamming , discrimination based on gear/grimoire/light levels is strong in the community , not even speaking about people who kick others right before the rewards SOLUTION: add matchmaking as a option HOW? : simply add it into the game settings to turn matchmaking ON/OFF. if there is a pretty useless option to wear a helmet in the tower there , why isnt a matchmaking option available for those who need it ? i had to add over 500 random people to my friendlist which i mostly met during the initial game where i added em only and never saw em again, for each person i added i had to spend between 5-30 minutes forums spamming and waiting , if i take a generous average of 10 minutes per player im at [b]83 wasted hours only to overcome bad game design[/b] in terms of matchmaking and thats a joke considering the game had a 500M $ budget feel free to share your comments :D [b] here's my experience with this current "brilliant" destiny matchmaking[/b]. 1.) start destiny 2.) decide to play something that doesnt have matchmaking 3.) look at my friendlist which has always about 100+ players online but i lost track who they are since i only added em for one game and they busy doing their own stuff 4.) go away from console to my laptop and spam forum threads , one post isnt enough because it gets lost after a minute in the depths of the thread 5.) go back to console to see if there are any friend requests 6.) if no friend requests , repeat steps 4 + 5 7.) if someone responds by just providing a nickname i have to write it down as its hard to memorize nicnames such as xxxSup3rPlayya5678xxx , the go back to enter it into my ps4 and send a friend request (often they already are in the game with another party by the time or not accepting my add because they already play) 8.) after 5-30 minutes depending on the luck i get enough friend requests , sometimes even more than is needed for the game , then i have to decide who to leave out which sucks for me as i hate doing that 9.) while playing with those random people i keep getting more firend requests for my old post from 30 minutes ago which i have to ignore , i hate doing that [b] Optional Matchmaking alternative:[/b] 1.) start destiny 2.) decide to play something , press matchmaking 3.) play with randoms 4.) if someone quits matchmaking fill the spot automatically

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    • Bump

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    • Destiny needs an INGAME LFG Chat window. And a mode that would add a little red dot beside your name indicating that you are LFG.

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    • Optional match making. Surely they are working on this.

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    • Destiny has a community of 300k+ daily players you can find 5 other people out of all those people smart one.

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    • Find someone unless your socially awkward

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      • Edited by jug47: 8/4/2015 11:01:21 AM
        I agree wholeheartedly with this. To not have matchmaking is nonsense. If I want to go in with my friends I will. For Luke Smith or whomever to decide that if my friends aren't available I can't play parts of the game is just an appalling display of being so far up his own importance to be blind to the real world.

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      • http://youtu.be/P6yna9dWf_A

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      • We need optional match making, seriously. why is this not in every aspect of destiny yet ?

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      • Hi, my name is LtDexter, and I'm happy to be here.

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      • Optional matchmaking is a no brainer. Use it if you want, go to lfg if you want, do the raid with friends if you want. There is simply no valid argument against "optional" matchmaking. Not having it as an "option" right now makes the game broken. People paid for content they can't play without going outside the game to find a team, period. Drops mic...

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        • Edited by Tim Eggers: 7/23/2015 4:59:57 PM
          I used to feel the same way but Destiny LFG is incredibly easy to use, and I've make a lot of new friends. So I have grown to like the current setup. Bungie doesn't need to spoon feed us Destiny. Want to raid? Work for it, I did. It's not so bad and makes raiding a lot more meaningful.

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          • Edited by GHays18: 7/23/2015 3:58:21 PM
            This is a no brainier in my opinion. For people who don't support raid matchmaking the solution is easy - you can still choose not to play with randoms. I've never raided because none of my friends have the same console as me, and I don't feel like searching for people on forums (which is just as much of a crapshoot as matchmaking anyway). Matchmaking would make it easier for some, and those who don't want to play with randoms could continue to play exclusively with their friends by forming a fire team before hand.

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          • No, I don't think it is ridiculous. I rather play with nothing but friends. I absolutely do not want to be paired with a bunch of idiots who have low skill, no motivation, and quit half way through a game mode that can take over an hour to complete. Raids are to be planned and properly executed with a coordinated dedicated team.

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            • To say that the reason that raids don't have mm is because its only for "hardcore raiders" and people that want to communicate is stupid. Destiny doesnt require -blam!-ingg communication and planning to complete raids shit its a -blam!-ing shooter! All you do is shoot the weak area of a boss then hide in cover when theyre going to return fire. This isnt WoW where you have different classes doing specific things and healers and shit, destiny has 3 classes and theyre all basically the same despite their supers.

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              • I say yes to raid matchmaking only if there is a vote to kick option so you can kick the AFK people

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              • Lol, so how do I solo it?

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              • Edited by Papa Lego III: 7/23/2015 3:32:29 PM
                I'll let you In on a secret [spoiler]it's a really bad idea[/spoiler]

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                • If I could do matchmaking raids that's probably all I would do. So I ask you is that a good thing or a bad thing? I would get bored of the two...yes count them...TWO raids, and have all of their gear and a ton of materials and exotics . In a way that makes the raids less special. Just playing devils advocate here

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                • FFS... The entitlement of the gaming population is sad. MMO endgame content is not meant for everyone. It is meant to be the most difficult content for the most dedicated.Once you people get matchmaking you'll next be bitching for the raids to be nerfed because your random group of people are getting their asses kicked at the front door. Like we haven't seen this scenario before...... Then the raid turns into puppies and kittens where the only thing that kills you is the boredom you feel from the loss of challenge.

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                  • TL:DR Some of us get bored playing with the same exact people all the time. Some of us actually prefer the challenge of playing with randoms. Some of us actually enjoy the prospect of attempting "Impossible" content with randoms. I really don't want to limit myself to having to get married to 5 other people over the internet, just to challenge myself at a videogame. This is Halo Custom games limited to a friends only list ALL OVER AGAIN! And you know what my idea of a Custom Game was, CTF Bloodgulch Warthogs Only. Not that stupid BS most of the "Custom Community" would play that required an honor system like Duck Hunt, etc. Playing with Randoms is more interesting. Because Playing with Randoms doesn't limit my options.

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                  • I stopped playing because of the lack of matchmaking. I wont play until there are matchmaking implements on all game modes. bungies logic of " wanting co-ordinated groups for the more difficult things " is only adding to the problem . going along with what the OP said people using 3rd party sites for matchmaking basically is " random matchmaking " . not implementing it into the game is only making the problem worse for people that don't know the raid routine. if it was allowed from the start then there would of been no problem, players would play and everybody would eventually get to learn the in and outs of the raids. please fix it bungie I loved the game but the lack of matchmaking made it stale for me.

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                  • No matchmaking for Raids is completely ridiculous. It won't matter to me personally because I'll have plenty of friends to play with, but damn Bungie, you're making harder and harder to play this game. First a 3 man cap on fireteams, even in explore mode, and now this. I just don't get it. Makes absolutely no sense to me. I would rather have matchmaking and attempt to complete a Raid and enjoy trying and fail, than not even have the chance. My 2 cents...

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                    • bump this shit. Add raid matchmaking.

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                      • I'm for it and I don't think it would nerf anything. Hear me out. They already have different difficulty levels for raids. Now on halo they had easy normal heroic legendary. Of course they didn't expect the casual gamers to complete legendary or heroic that's why easy and normal is in place. People didn't cry for legendary to be nerfed simply bc of course it's hard they know that there's no reason to cry about it being to difficult when it's simply a fact hard is freaking hard. Just my opinion of course

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                      • bump bump. Add raid matchmaking. No excuse not to have it. Even with all this bs planning and communication. The "raiders" just dont want to see everyone have endgame gear. ALso this is starting to make me think bungie doesnt have as much content as they originally were leading on

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