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This thread is inspired by another: view original post

Edited by Silent: 7/29/2014 9:39:51 PM
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Silent

Decrypting the Darkness [Follow-up]

Hey guys, thanks for the overwhelmingly positive response to that analysis! I wanted to try and respond to and compile everything that everyone contributed, but you guys wrote a lot so here's a new thread. Most of the cool ideas centered around the implications for the larger plot, and I've got a few that no one posted yet. I'll credit you where appropriate. It will be broken into these sections: 1. The Darkness 2. The Last City 3. The Traveler and the Fallen 4. The Guardians 1. The Darkness First of all DJenser contributed a much more complete analysis of some of the acronyms relating to computer science (as well as a more in-depth [than the neogaf review] look at the literary/historical references). A few stood out to me: [quote] NP-Hard means "Non-deterministic Polynomial-time hard". The term comes from theoretical computer science's theory of computational complexity. The underlying basis is that any computational problem is one that can be analyzed and solved by a computer or otherwise by mechanical implementation of computational steps, such as an algorithm. A problem that is "NP-Hard" is at least as difficult as the hardest problem in Non-deterministic Polynomial time. "TCC" could indicate a certain complexity class for the Event. "OCP" comes from the "Culture" series by Iain Banks. It stands for "Outside Context Problem", which means a problem that is not (indeed cannot be) considered until it occurs. It is the kind of problem "most civilizations would encounter just once, and which they tended to encounter rather in the same way a sentence encountered a full stop."[/quote] This suggests that, even though these observers were scientifically advanced enough to detect sterile neutrinos and gravity waves [spoiler](though the gravity wave detection may actually be a better indicator of just how powerful the wave was, especially if it remained at a detectable amplitude the full 0.3 seconds, as that would indicate a distortion that was at least: 299,792,458 meters / second* X 0.3 second= 89,937,737.4 meters Which is just over 7 times the diameter of the Earth. ) *Gravity waves, should they exist, would move at the speed of light) [/spoiler] , they still had no idea what they were looking at when it came to this event. Many have suggested (including the original neogaf review) that this excerpt is likely from the beginning of the event that knocked humanity out of their Golden age, and I tend to agree. That also leads into the next section: 2. The Last City There is another Grimoire on "The Dark Age" immediately following the Traveler being knocked down. Interestingly, it's image shares the same dark circle of geometric shapes that "The Darkness" card does, which we may come to learn is an indicator that the card's contents are concerned with long-passed events. [spoiler] “No one knew what had happened to the Traveler. No one understood what had happened to the world. But they heard the whispered call.” They came from the wild lands, gathering in secret enclaves, slipping through the howling ruins of shattered cities, hoping to find the coast, find a ship, pick up the trail of an impossible dream. From the deep black came the Awoken, their eyes haunted. Exos marched in the refugee columns, cloaked in moss and shattered memories. And among them came the Ghosts, beginning their search. It was a time of vast suffering and terrible evil. But there was one hope: the promise of a refuge beneath the Traveler.[/spoiler] It's clear that the civilizations of the solar system were knocked down to nothing when this event happened. Their resurgence is thanks to the Traveler, but this resurgence seems a bit odd. Those we've seen in the tower seem almost primitive in a lot of ways. It's been said that any sufficiently advanced technology will look like magic to those who don't understand it, but these humans have taken that right down to wearing robes and cloaks. Instead of seeing computers lining the observatory we see old books and steam-punk-esque structures. While there was likely always a significant gap between the Traveler's knowledge and Humanity's, I don't exactly see "The Speaker" being the type of person to turn around and start rattling off computer science and particle physics terms. I take this as pretty clear evidence the first Grimoire is as old as we think, but it does raise interesting questions about why humanity seems to have regressed in a few ways. Grumpymoose highlighted this portion of the Grimoire: [quote]Cauterize public sources to SECURE ISIS and harden for defensive action.[/quote] The neogaf review suggested that ISIS may be the Traveler, though either way it seems to be something the public had access to. We don't know enough to be suspicious of anyone yet, but I do wonder if the people of The Last City are still restricted from accessing information or technology. I can't really speculate as to why, but given the ambiguity of the Traveler's purpose in our system, what followed it, and how deep in the dark we are now, I feel there's reason to be critical of everything we're told in these early days. 3. The Traveler and the Fallen Several people in the last thread have been speculating the reasons as to why the other races are in our solar system. There are a lot of good theories, but I think the Fallen in-particular are most interesting. Looking at them, they don't look too different than Guardians. A lot of Ceramic/Plastic looking material (I think it may be called Plasteel in-game, check your inventory if you broke down Titan armor), cloacks, capes, and stylized appearances. In addition, they disintegrate into light when killed, in a manner not too different from how guardians die and are reborn from their Ghosts. It too seems odd that a race would construct such specific (four arms, bipedal) sets of armor if they were naturally made of light or gas. This could lend credence to the theory that The Fallen (as does their name) were a race that the Traveler previously tried to employ against the Darkness. 4. The Guardians Something I've been wondering lately is what exactly the Traveler hopes to gain by sending Guardians out to the lost worlds. If The Darkness really is a massive reality bending force, foot soldiers don't seem like the best tool to use against it. I believe the Guardians are being sent so that they may find something the Traveler is looking for. It is possible that The Fallen scavenging the old worlds are looking for it as well (perhaps to win back its favor?). If I had to bet money, I'd say that part of it is going to involve an AI. Cortana Five wrote a great analysis awhile back that lays out a pattern Bungie has been following since the early nineties. It should come full circle in 2014. [url]http://www.bungie.net/en/Forum/Post/3440571[/url] I won't spoil too much (you should read it), but the AIs name will likely be a derivative of Joyeuse. The fact that we've learned that there's a location on Mars called Charlemagne's Vault indicates it will be found there, and it's also worth noting that Durandal (the equivalent AI from Marathon) also came from Mars. I won't say more, go read it. The last wild card is the Vex. These time-traveling robots don't seem to have much of a place in the revealed lore yet. Of course, if the Darkness can only be affected by future events (the Acausal thing from the last thread) they may play a key role. As always, thank you for reading! Probably won't hear too much more from me before launch (unless half my Grimoires un-redact themselves...), but I may make a video on something. Way back when, I made a few on some possible references Destiny was making to older Bungie titles. I've noticed a few more (enough to make another video) so I might go for that again. Here are the older ones: [url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B3iUQawlMTk[/url] [url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wZfSov8CYTo[/url]
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  • Is there any word on the darkness having its own variants of guardians? Soldiers that aren't just typical fodder like the thralls?
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    • Just saying, who says the darkness is coming? Maybe it's already here, in the shape of, oh, i don't know, a giant sphere directly above the city that could crush everything in seconds?
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    • Where is the original post, please?
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    • Something interesting that I've noticed no one seems to have very concrete ideas on. Is where does the Mysterious Exo come from? Now, I am making a bit of an intuitive leap here, so I may be completely wrong. She (if she is the Exo speaking to us from the trailer we saw), is a Guardian. But not of the Last City. But of another, lesser known area. In Norse Myth, the Einherjar are the chosen fallen warriors who assist the Aesir and Vanir during Ragnarok. These Eiherjar are sent to one of two places, either to Valhalla, Odin's Citadel. Or to Folkvangr (field of the host/army), Freya's domain. So, here's my theory. The Exo Stranger is Destiny's equivalent of Folkvangr, while we're from The Last City/Tower, which is the equivalent of Valhalla. Our ghosts are our Valkyries, reviving and sustaining us. What do you guys think?
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      • The answer can be found in the Purple Ball. May it's path lead us to the truth and may we all find peace and solidarity within its shadow.
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      • Very well said, Silent. Hats off too you!
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      • I saw a video showing how to glitch into "Seraphim's Vault", which is a locked area in the beta in the forgotten shore. upon some research, I have concluded that seraphim is a warmind, like rasputin, and he is rebooting inside this vault. Near the vault is an area called the "RAS-2 Bunker". Now, lets assume rasputin, who we know is still alive/rebooting, is an exo, RAS-2=rasputin. We can assume this is where rasputin is rebooting. Now I don't know how this all links into the story, but I assume it's a large part. We can also assume that Charlemagne, as in "Charlemagne's Vault" on mars is ALSO a warmind. Again, not sure how this all links into the story, and it is pure speculation, but it's a lot to build on.
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        • Made me think. Hats off to you, fine sir. Are you by any chance, a Warlock? XD Jk. Hunters and Titans can be scholars too. :)
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          • Edited by DJenser: 7/30/2014 9:41:48 PM
            [quote]Hey guys, thanks for the overwhelmingly positive response to that analysis! I wanted to try and respond to and compile everything that everyone contributed, but you guys wrote a lot so here's a new thread. Most of the cool ideas centered around the implications for the larger plot, and I've got a few that no one posted yet. I'll credit you where appropriate. It will be broken into these sections: 1. The Darkness 2. The Last City 3. The Traveler and the Fallen 4. The Guardians 1. The Darkness First of all DJenser contributed a much more complete analysis of some of the acronyms relating to computer science (as well as a more in-depth [than the neogaf review] look at the literary/historical references). A few stood out to me: [quote] NP-Hard means "Non-deterministic Polynomial-time hard". The term comes from theoretical computer science's theory of computational complexity. The underlying basis is that any computational problem is one that can be analyzed and solved by a computer or otherwise by mechanical implementation of computational steps, such as an algorithm. A problem that is "NP-Hard" is at least as difficult as the hardest problem in Non-deterministic Polynomial time. "TCC" could indicate a certain complexity class for the Event. "OCP" comes from the "Culture" series by Iain Banks. It stands for "Outside Context Problem", which means a problem that is not (indeed cannot be) considered until it occurs. It is the kind of problem "most civilizations would encounter just once, and which they tended to encounter rather in the same way a sentence encountered a full stop."[/quote][/quote]Hey thanks for the shout-out! [quote]This suggests that, even though these observers were scientifically advanced enough to detect sterile neutrinos and gravity waves [spoiler](though the gravity wave detection may actually be a better indicator of just how powerful the wave was, especially if it remained at a detectable amplitude the full 0.3 seconds, as that would indicate a distortion that was at least: 299,792,458 meters / second* X 0.3 second= 89,937,737.4 meters Which is just over 7 times the diameter of the Earth. ) *Gravity waves, should they exist, would move at the speed of light) [/spoiler] , they still had no idea what they were looking at when it came to this event. [/quote][spoiler][b]SEVEN[/b] times the diameter of the Earth, you say?[/spoiler] [quote]Many have suggested (including the original neogaf review) that this excerpt is likely from the beginning of the event that knocked humanity out of their Golden age, and I tend to agree. [/quote]Indeed, that .3-second Event was the equivalent of the note from Heimdall's horn which heralded the coming of Nightfall, otherwise known as Ragnarok. (Reference to VOLUSPA) Care to guess what Heimdall's horn was called? Here's a hint from last year's E3: [i]"It was raised by wolves!"[/i] [quote]That also leads into the next section: 2. The Last City There is another Grimoire on "The Dark Age" immediately following the Traveler being knocked down. Interestingly, it's image shares the same dark circle of geometric shapes that "The Darkness" card does, which we may come to learn is an indicator that the card's contents are concerned with long-passed events.[/quote]The Dark Age is another name given to the time period in Hindu mythology known as the Kali Yuga (Not the goddess Kali, but the demons that use her name for their collective race), which is described as an age of great wickedness and unimaginable suffering. (Reference to YUGA) [quote][spoiler] “No one knew what had happened to the Traveler. No one understood what had happened to the world. But they heard the whispered call.” They came from the wild lands, gathering in secret enclaves, slipping through the howling ruins of shattered cities, hoping to find the coast, find a ship, pick up the trail of an impossible dream. From the deep black came the Awoken, their eyes haunted. Exos marched in the refugee columns, cloaked in moss and shattered memories. And among them came the Ghosts, beginning their search. It was a time of vast suffering and terrible evil. But there was one hope: the promise of a refuge beneath the Traveler.[/spoiler] It's clear that the civilizations of the solar system were knocked down to nothing when this event happened. Their resurgence is thanks to the Traveler, but this resurgence seems a bit odd.[/quote]indeed, the passage on that card seems to indicate to me that whatever happened was neither quick nor total. The destruction wrought throughout the Solar System clearly left remnants of survivors scattered across the system and an exodus to the last safe City. [quote]Those we've seen in the tower seem almost primitive in a lot of ways. It's been said that any sufficiently advanced technology will look like magic to those who don't understand it, but these humans have taken that right down to wearing robes and cloaks. Instead of seeing computers lining the observatory we see old books and steam-punk-esque structures. While there was likely always a significant gap between the Traveler's knowledge and Humanity's, I don't exactly see "The Speaker" being the type of person to turn around and start rattling off computer science and particle physics terms. I take this as pretty clear evidence the first Grimoire is as old as we think, but it does raise interesting questions about why humanity seems to have regressed in a few ways. Grumpymoose highlighted this portion of the Grimoire: [quote]Cauterize public sources to SECURE ISIS and harden for defensive action.[/quote] The neogaf review suggested that ISIS may be the Traveler, though either way it seems to be something the public had access to. We don't know enough to be suspicious of anyone yet, but I do wonder if the people of The Last City are still restricted from accessing information or technology. I can't really speculate as to why, but given the ambiguity of the Traveler's purpose in our system, what followed it, and how deep in the dark we are now, I feel there's reason to be critical of everything we're told in these early days.[/quote]After a cataclysm of that magnitude, it's understandable that recollection will be hazy. The trauma of the event alone would be a key reason for lack of real data on the subject. People might be afraid of what they'd find or simply not want to relive it. The memory of the Holocaust is a perfect example of the monumental efforts of an entire people to make sure the world never forgot the horrors that one people can inflict upon another, and yet hardly anyone remembers that the Armenians suffered a similar fate under Ottoman rule some 30 years earlier. Couple that with the fact that most of the survivors are likely civilians who had no idea the full extent of what was going on at the time. After the fall of the Roman Empire in the 5th century it took nearly 700 years for Europe to pull itself out of the Dark Ages. All society knew immediately after the Collapse was that there was safe haven beneath the Traveler. All they remembered from the time before was that the Traveler had given them untold number of wondrous gifts. Is it any wonder that nobody in the City thinks of the Traveler with anything other than reverence?
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          • As I didn't see your previous post, I don't know if you voiced an opinion if the Cabal from what little we know of them. However, as we seem to be of the same opinion on the subject of the Fallen, it makes me feel more confident in my thoughts of the Cabal. While we haven't actually encountered any or seen any grimoire cards on them, I do find the Cabal's appearance and description on the Enemies tab of Bungie's Destiny page interesting, the main reason being that they look more or less like bulky humans in power armor of some sort. While it's impossible to tell because of how bulky their suits are, the vague resemblance is still intriguing, especially considering the description states them as operating similarly to a military operation. My theory is this: the Cabal were our military when we first encountered the Darkness at the end of the Golden Age. We sent them out to fight back, but the Darkness overwhelmed them, cutting their numbers thin, with us having fewer left the closer it came to Earth. This is likely the reason they aren't on Earth, and is also likely why they seem more sophisticated than all the other enemies, as they are described as building fortresses, rather than simply improvising them like the Fallen or bringing in pre-existing ones like the Hive. As I stated, this is all just speculation, and I have no idea what the truth behind the Cabal is. But wouldn't be interesting if they were us?
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            • Edited by L4J: 7/30/2014 3:17:12 PM
              2
              At the moment I'm leading towards this regarding the different races: Humanity: There doesn't seem to be a strong central leader for humanity, or a collective long-term goal beyond survival. The most forward-thinking groups seem to be the five factions, two of which we know almost nothing about: New Monarchy - Possibly most concerned with organizing humanity under one central leader and goal? FWC - They seem to be most interested in unlocking humanities lost technologies and fighting back against the enemies of Earth. Dead Orbit - They just want to leave and start over, maybe they don't trust the Traveler? They seem to be the only group actively seeking to separate themselves from it. 7 Serephs - No idea, although their name references Seraphim, or "burning ones". Possibly a group dedicated to or led by Warlocks? Osiris - If what Silent mentioned about Isis = The Traveler is true, having a faction named Osiris is interesting. In Egyptian mythology, Isis took Osiris' corpse and used it to create Horus. Could the Osiris faction be dedicated to sustaining and supporting the Traveler? Or could it be named for whatever the Traveler used to create the Ghosts, who would represent Horus? The Fallen - I definitely believe they were old allies of the Traveler and blame it for the fall of their civilization (or are still trying to appease it). I think they may have also helped the Darkness find earth somehow, possibly out of jealousy that the Traveler had new allies, but I don't believe they are actually allies of the darkness, since they fight the Hive. Also, we've seen Fallen working with Cabal, so I think some of the Fallen view the Cabal as the new rising power, and want to join them. The Cabal - I think they are a fairly young race just behind humanity in age, who are forging a galactic empire for the first time, and have wandered onto a much larger struggle without realizing what's at stake or how dangerous the Darkness is. The Hive - They seem linked to the Darkness, but they probably aren't allies, more like the scavengers that lurk around an apex predator looking for scraps. I find it most compelling to view the Darkness as a force of nature or entropy rather than a traditional villain. The Vex - Based just on what we know about them, my totally uneducated guess is that they are studying the Darkness, either trying to control it or seeking to protect themselves from it. Sorry for the wall of text. :-/
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              • Edited by Michael Scarn: 7/30/2014 5:44:09 AM
                I liked your bit on the Fallen. I've always thought they were very different than the other enemies of humanity. You'll notice that they've also had a sort of golden age & collapse. This leads me to believe that they once had the Traveler but something happened & the Traveler left along with their golden age. Also the Fallen fight Humans but the fact that they also fight the Hive means that they are not an ally of the Darkness. I think the Fallen want to take back the Traveler which means they obviously can't allow the Hive to destroy it.
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                • Awesome post, thank you for all of this
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                • Edited by Fresh Pancake: 7/29/2014 9:58:22 PM
                  I really like these theories. I'm especially interested in the origin of the Exos and Awoken, as I was afraid Bungie wouldn't elaborate much on that. This is a good sign that they will. What's really interesting to me is that the Exos seems to be there own race, instead of something created by another race, which is what I was thinking would be the case.
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                  • Nicely done, all very interesting stuff, I so think the fallen were employed by the traveler, especially seeing as they are split up, maybe the traveler tried to use them to fight the darkness but they were too prone to fighting each other, or perhaps too primitive. And I love your take on how humanity is taking much of the traveler light as magic when perhaps long ago humanity was near intelligent enough to understand some of the travelers workings.
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                  • 0
                    Mind. Blown. ...it's too much.
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                  • Can I tenure you at the Institute of Destiny: Earth?
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                  • Holy shit. You wrote like a book. Who reads this stuff?
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                  • Scholarly work, sir. Very interesting.
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                  • tldr darkness is probably something like fable, keep in mind i haven't read any thing about this yet.
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                  • Well done sir. You have again outdone yourself. I look forward to seeing what other information you decipher.
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                    ghost59
                    ghost59

                    "you and me are going places." - 7/27/2016 7:33:45 PM

                    The darkness = ctuthulu ?
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                  • +1 for you sir. actually using your brain.
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                  • Please continue sharing any of these you see fit to divulge to the community. I have a feeling you guys aren't far off and these reads are an absolute pleasure!
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                    Holy crap this is twisting my brain in knots. Awesome thread, but I'll leave this to the smart members.
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