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originally posted in: I'm a communist
5/30/2014 2:54:59 AM
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[quote]EDIT: At the risk of going Schopenhaurian (or even Verbatimian) the [u]only true [i]solution[/i] would be the annihilation of the human race.[/u] But I'm not going to proffer that in this thread.[/quote]Why is that?
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  • Because only then do the problems cease.

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  • Edited by Le Dustin xddddd: 5/30/2014 2:57:21 AM
    But are problems inherently bad things?

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  • That's part of the problem. [spoiler]Hue.[/spoiler] Problems, obstacles, setbacks, whatever are all a matter of perception. You can debate whether or not problems are bad things, but the issue is that there will always be problems. Only by removing perception can you remove the issue.

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  • So human perception will never be able to experience perfection (unless you change human perception of course). What's wrong with that?

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  • [quote]What's wrong with that?[/quote] Not being able to experience perfection is in itself a [i]wrongness[/i]. Is that wrongness ultimately beneficial? That's where you stray into really subjective ideas. To Verbatim: no. To you or I: probably yes. The point is that your idea of something have the quality of wrongness ultimately depends on your normative views of what things [i]should[/i] be like. I value progress of the artistic and social sort, whereas you value progress of the scientific and political sort (speaking loosely) and Verbatim values progress of the cessation of the eradication sort. The point is that the only way to achieve a state of perceptual perfection, rightness or purity is to completely eliminate perception.

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  • So basically eliminate perception so it doesn't hurt its own feelings?

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  • That's a way of looking at it, I suppose. Although I personally take a Nietzschean attitude towards suffering and life.

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  • I'm still not seeing how perception feeling unhappy is [i]objectively[/i] wrong, since wrong only has meaning to one's perception.

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  • Edited by Bong Cognition: 5/30/2014 3:22:39 AM
    I didn't say it was objectively wrong. I said it has a quality of wrongness, which is the very essence of sadness. Think of it this way, it isn't universally "wrong" to feel sadness. It isn't universally pure either. Elimination of sadness altogether is the only way to achieve a true state of totally lacking wrongness in any degree. Elimination of perception is the only path to [u]totally eliminating wrongness[/u].

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  • I think I'm seeing your point, but I still think it's dependent upon what one's perception wants to do with its rights and wrongs.

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  • Let me try to explain it this way: Wherever there is perception, there will be a mixture of wrongness and rightness. Perception necessarily leads to judgements which cause either suffering or benefit. A total elimination of perception results in a total elimination of wrongness and suffering. It also results in a total elimination of rightness or benefit, but this doesn't matter because the capacity to yield the benefit is lost. You're eliminating the wrongness and making the rightness irrelevant.

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  • I get that, but what about the people who prefer to have the wrongness in order to experience the rightness?

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  • Edited by Bong Cognition: 5/30/2014 3:33:19 AM
    [quote]but what about the people who prefer to have the wrongness in order to experience the rightness?[/quote] It becomes an irrelevancy. You're refusing to play the game by removing the weight that benefit could have. When their perception is no longer a factor, neither is the potential benefit. There is nothing inherently wrong about somebody not experiencing a rightness.

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  • But isn't it irrelevant whether or not perception exists? I feel like this is a circular argument. Let's at least bring up the fact that perception (aka intelligent life) is an inevitability that you cannot stop. An intelligent species develops; the species decides to venture the stars and kill all other life and burn all life sustaining worlds to prevent their own suffering; the species then kills itself; the Universe crunches and expands again; new life flourishes; an intelligent species develops, etc, etc.

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  • Which is why, at best, it can extend to being the only proper solution for a single species to self-initiate.

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  • Edited by SexyPiranha: 5/30/2014 3:48:14 AM
    Well, that may be just a whole lot of assumption. It could very well be we are the only life and after the universe experiences heat death( or whatever) that'll be it. Perfection=stagnation

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  • [quote]Perfection=stagnation[/quote] You're a fuc­king genius, man. You've given me just the inspiration I've needed.

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  • Wait for what? Don't tell me it's something depressing.

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  • [spoiler]Writing. [/spoiler]

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  • Edited by SexyPiranha: 5/30/2014 3:59:02 AM
    Oh. Well, glad to help. [spoiler]What're you writing?[/spoiler]

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  • [spoiler]I don't know how to categorise it. Dark fantasy, with elements of psychological thriller I suppose. [/spoiler]

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  • Nice.

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  • That almost sounds like sarcasm but he isn't wrong about it

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  • lel [spoiler]Dustiny. [/spoiler]

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  • True, but a lot of what we think we know about the Universe is just assumption.

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