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originally posted in:Halo Archive
2/25/2014 5:53:31 PM
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Posts like this make me miss Bungies Halo. :( I mean 343 just hired a bunch of Japanese people to shit on the aesthetic design, story, and canon More importantly they shat on THE LOGIC FACTOR
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    [quote]I mean 343 just hired a bunch of [b]Japanese[/b] people[/quote] because that makes a difference at all. [quote]to shit on the aesthetic design, story, and [/quote] value judgement, so i guess this is fine. [quote]canon[/quote] that depends on what we're talking about, but in many cases it's entirely wrong. [quote]More importantly they shat on THE LOGIC FACTOR[/quote] see my response to "canon."

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  • Um. nearly all of this is bungie. Actually I am sure all of it is. They didn't really have any sort of understanding in regards to scale when they created halo.

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  • I think you missed the point. He is saying he liked the lore in your post because it was bungie lore, but he does not like the newer lore brought by 343i.

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  • That is exactly what i thought he was saying and what my reply was about. "Bungies Halo was inconsistent and illogical". He said 343I messed everything up when they have been going off some serious roots.

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  • I see. Well I agree with him especially since there [i]were[/i] some serious plot holes in halo 4.

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  • List them all and I will address them all using only content from Halo 4.

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  • [quote]there were some serious plot holes in halo 4.[/quote] Please list them, I'd be happy to address them.

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  • Edited by wolfBTM: 2/26/2014 6:47:38 PM
    I don't feel like debating all day so I will do one. If you can give me an adequate answer, then you win. At the end of halo 3 the Forward Unto Dawn is a frigate, yes? At the beginning of halo 4 it is a carrier. How?

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    [quote]At the end of halo 3 the Forward Unto Dawn is a frigate, yes? At the beginning of halo 4 it is a carrier.[/quote] no it's not. canonically, the forward unto dawn is still a charon class frigate [albeit a heavily redesigned one for gameplay purposes, as grey states]. though i'd say a more relevant juxtaposition would be comparing the gameplay/art inconsistency with the inconsistency in ce. that is, [url=http://halo.bungie.org/misc/sloftus_scalecomparison/]the pillar of autumn being 1.17 kilometers[/url] in game and then being [url=http://i.imgur.com/j1FW4uw.png]almost twice that length[/url] in the [i]first[/i] section of the maw run. in addition, how is this serious in any way?

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  • It is a fairly large inconsistency for something change that much. Whether it is a redesign or a magical change in type of ship, it is fairly noticeable. While I wouldn't go so far as to say it directly affects the plot, I would call it an annoyance to one who pays attention to fine detail.

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    [quote]It is a fairly large inconsistency for something change that much. Whether it is a redesign or a magical change in type of ship, it is fairly noticeable.[/quote] *shrug* it's canonically still the same length and the same class of design. [quote]While I wouldn't go so far as to say it directly affects the plot, I would call it an annoyance to one who pays attention to fine detail.[/quote] which is completely different to the statement you made here: [quote]I see. Well I agree with him especially since there were some [b]serious plot holes[/b] in halo 4.[/quote] not only is the redesign not a plot hole, it's fairly insignificant altogether.

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  • Edited by wolfBTM: 2/26/2014 11:58:12 PM
    Fine it isn't a plot hole it is just annoying to me. I thought a plot hole was an inconsistency in the plot, not an inconsistency that affects the plot, but I may be wrong.

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    [quote]Fine it isn't a plot hole it is just annoying to me.[/quote] *shrug* i'd still like an example of one of the more pressing plot holes you've been talking about. [quote]I thought a plot hole was an inconsistency in the plot, not an inconsistency that affects the plot, but I may be wrong.[/quote] ... the artistic design of the forward unto dawn isn't exactly something which i'd say is relevant to the plot at all.

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  • Technically, the magical redesign of a ship in deep space is not very consistent. I'm all for a graphical update but they should have left the overall design of the ship the same, if not similar. These may not be plot holes, but maybe you can help me fill my gaps of halo knowledge. I'm perfectly fine with being wrong if it furthers my knowledge (which being wrong, by nature, does). Where did the storm elites (a relatively small group of sangheili) get all those warships? Also, how did they find the location of Requiem?

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    [quote]Technically, the magical redesign of a ship in deep space is not very consistent. [/quote] i suppose you could pen it down as a plot flaw if you're talking about locales, but that's just being nitpicky. it's more of a visual inconsistency. [quote]I'm all for a graphical update but they should have left the overall design of the ship the same, if not similar.[/quote] they still left the ship the same size. [quote]These may not be plot holes, but maybe you can help me fill my gaps of halo knowledge. I'm perfectly fine with being wrong if it furthers my knowledge (which being wrong, by nature, does).[/quote] i love you [quote]Where did the storm elites (a relatively small group of sangheili) get all those warships? [/quote] A) karen traviss' writing. i'm a little rusty on it myself [and i hate going to wikis so i'm going to go off memory here, if anyone sees me making any mistakes myself feel free to correct me] B) it's not just the storm elites, it's the storm covenant as a whole. they pooled stuff left over from the schism battles. in addition, the amount of ships we see with them is actually really small comparative to the full size of the covenant. [quote]Also, how did they find the location of Requiem?[/quote] according to the thursday war, jul figured out the location of requiem in a search for the didact in some forerunner ruins back at home. he took it to a friend of his, and poof! requiem! [quote]“What is it?” Jul asked. “What do the numbers tel you?” Panom had the most extraordinary expression on his face. Jul wasn’t sure if he was shocked or ecstatic. “They are coordinates,” Panom said. “This adds greatly to our knowledge. We seek to record al the holy sites, but some remain hidden from us.” “And which one is this?” Jul slid the belt back and forth again. “Which world?” “I’m not sure.” Jul felt possessed by sudden certainty. Part of him knew it was manic behavior brought on by the shock of Raia’s death, but he was prepared to grasp at anything now, and even an animal—even a human—could understand things at an unthinking, instinctive level beyond their conscious mind. This compulsion felt exactly like that. “I think this tells us where Requiem is,” Jul said. “Requiem. ” He groped for the right words that would galvanize Panom. Hidden Forerunner technology was now the best hope that Sanghelios had to crush humanity, and Jul was determined to seek it out. He’d need Panom’s help to do that. These people were the only ones he could truly trust. “Don’t you see it? Requiem. That’s where the Didact was hidden. That’s where they say he waits.”[/quote]

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  • Edited by wolfBTM: 2/27/2014 12:34:04 AM
    Interesting. [quote]i love you[/quote] Love you too. Ok, try this one. How did Cortana know exactly who the Didact was as soon as he was awoken and that he would be hostile? If she did know, then why did she not prevent Chief from awakening him, or set a goal such as "stop the covenant from waking the Didact" so as to prevent his awakening?

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    [quote]How did Cortana know exactly who the Didact was as soon as he was awoken and that he would be hostile?[/quote] jul m'dama shouted his name. in addition the covenant left transmissions all around the place in requiem wreckage all talking about the didact and how he came here. [quote]If she did know, [/quote] she only knew after jul m'dama shouted his name in the cutscene, and well, when she realized that the distress beacon wasn't the infinity's signal. [quote]then why did she not prevent Chief from awakening him, or set a goal such as "stop the covenant from waking the Didact" so as to prevent his awakening?[/quote] A) she did try and stop him [though she herself was still unsure of what to do]. cortana- "wait something's not right!" chief- "we don't have time!" B) see other explanations.

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  • So if she was listening in in covenant comms then she should have heard something strange. It doesn't seem as though Jul is the most subtle either. She likely would have heard direct references to their plans and probably should have realized that they should attempt to stop them. Cortana has listened in on Covenant comms for a long time, and it is likely that the Storm faction uses the same security as the covenant. Therefore, she could easily have realized their intent if she was at all competent.

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  • Edited by kgj: 2/27/2014 12:57:39 AM
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    [quote]So if she was listening in in covenant comms then she should have heard something strange. [/quote] erm, no. A) she was listening to [i]recorded[/i] covenant transmissions left lying around in the rubble. you can go around and "press x to listen." try it out, they're some fun little treats to discover. B) if you're talking about what i'm saying about jul, he [i]verbalized[/i] it after the didact appeared. [quote]It doesn't seem as though Jul is the most subtle either. [/quote] ... why not? [quote]She likely would have heard direct references to their plans and probably should have realized that they should attempt to stop them. [/quote] they were focused entirely on getting to the infinity. [quote]Cortana has listened in on Covenant comms for a long time, and it is likely that the Storm faction uses the same security as the covenant. [/quote] four years later. tech advances. to borrow from halo 4, "a lot can happen in four years." regardless, it's not important in light of the fact that jul isn't exactly a moron. "they [the covenant] are actually broadcasting tactical data on unencrypted channels. we should show them who they're dealing with." - cortana, second mission of halo ce. we see none of that in halo 4. i assume jul isn't arrogant about chief and his security in general [especially considering their expeditions to requiem would require discretion]. [quote]Therefore, she could easily have realized their intent if she was at all competent.[/quote] A) she's not exactly the most competent in the events of halo 4. B) disagree with that claim in general for above reasons.

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  • Edited by wolfBTM: 2/27/2014 1:24:16 AM
    I see. Well actually going a bit offtopic (lol?), I want to talk about Jul M'dama. Do you believe that he was tactically and/or strategically efficient? Why or why not?

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    [quote]Well actually going a bit offtopic (lol?), [/quote] this is actually more on topic than any other post in this subthread XD [quote]I want to talk about Jul M'dama. Do you believe that he was tactically and/or strategically efficient? Why or why not?[/quote] i really have to say i haven't analyzed his approaches in depth yet [mainly because i just don't really like kilo five too much :/]. my judgement right now stands as a yes, though that might be because kilo five is basically "what could possibly go wrong simulator 26th century edition" for the his enemies. that being said, you should probably ask someone like lord of admirals or grey for a better judgement.

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  • Ok. Nice talking to you, Gojira. Bye...

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    right back at you, and bye!

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  • Edited by Lord of Admirals: 2/27/2014 12:58:10 AM
    With that logic, Cortana could have found out that the installation they were on was called Halo and that the Covenant were searching for the control room in order to fire it in Halo CE. The simple fact of the matter is that while she can monitor the Covenant Battlenet, she's only paying attention to the tactical commands which are being broadcast over unencrypted channels. The key word is [u][b]unencrypted[/b][/u].

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  • That isn't a plot Hole. 343I changed it because there wasn't enough space for the Dawn to be a playable level as they wish. It isn't anywhere as a plot hole as the PoA being in perfect shape at the end of reach while the novel said it was a skeleton. You seriously need to try harder.

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