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Edited by Derp: 2/2/2014 11:03:35 PM
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We need a budget. But anyway, these are certain brands/products you should buy regardless: [b]GPU [/b]- Asus (DirectCU II) or EVGA (ACX) [b]Motherboard [/b]- Asus, ASRock, MSI or Gigabyte (I could recommend you the exact motherboard if i knew what chipset you were going for) [b]RAM [/b]- Corsair, G.Skill or Kingston [b]SSD [/b]- Samsung 840 EVO (Get this regardless of your budget) [b]HDD [/b]- Western Digital WD Black or Blue (Black is faster... Pun intended... Again, get this regardless of your budget) [b]CPU Cooler[/b] - Cooler Master Hyper 212 EVO (Best performing CPU fan. Get this regardless of the budget, unless you want watercooling) [b]PSU [/b]- Seasonic or Corsair [b]Case [/b]- Anything with good airflow Can't help much without a budget. :/
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  • Umm, you are telling him to buy a 120GB SSD? Totally not necessary for that space. If you can't wait 5 seconds for a load screen, then you shouldn't be playing games. Put the 100 dollars from that into another component OP.

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  • After your comment:[quote]Just buy prebuilt.[/quote]I wouldn't recommend anyone take advice from you. The sole purpose of an SSD is not to purely decrease the load times between games. There's a HUGE decrease in OS boot times and load times of any applications you chose to store on it. A lot more than "5 seconds". I'll assume you don't have one. Use an SSD and you'll never want to go back. I'd rather spend $100 on insanely fast boot times for any of your games than spending it on... What? Increasing the frame rate by a couple of frames if you chose to spend the money on a slightly faster GPU? [quote]If you can't wait 5 seconds for a load screen, then you shouldn't be playing games.[/quote]Actually... I chose to spend money on something that'll actually improve my gaming experience more. Drastically decreasing load times in games, applications and OS boot times is more important than increasing my FPS by a couple of frames. Then again, i don't expect you to have any knowledge of cost vs. performance ratios seeing as you've just told someone to buy a pre-built PC.

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  • I have a HDD and my OS boots in about 15 seconds. Games boot up just as fast. Also, an OS is going to take up most of that SSD. It is a waste of money with something that small. The boost in speed from a SSD is so tiny for such a bump in price. And I know the cost comparison pretty well. I could have built because many people in my family have the know how and could have walked me through it, but I chose convenience along with a killer deal. But continue to think you know more because you've built and get an extra 3-5 seconds in load times.

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  • Edited by Derp: 2/4/2014 5:14:07 AM
    [quote]Also, an OS is going to take up most of that SSD.[/quote]Uhh... This is what gives away the fact that you have no idea what you're talking about. Windows 8, for example, is 20GB. Is 20GB most of 120GB? No... I don't think it is. If you're building a gaming PC, you're not going to be spending a couple hundred dollars. A gaming PC has one simple feature: It is optimized for gaming. Gaming optimization is not only about framerates and graphics. It's also load times. Launching the game. Loading the levels insanely fast. [quote]But continue to think you know more because you've built and get an extra 3-5 seconds in load times.[/quote]http://blog.laptopmag.com/wpress/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/geeks-geek-app-open.jpg http://blog.laptopmag.com/wpress/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/momentus-average-boot-time.jpg http://media.bestofmicro.com/2/S/313732/original/gamestart_ssdvshdd.png http://media.bestofmicro.com/2/Q/313730/original/gameload_ssdvshdd.png 3-5 seconds my ass. By the way, the sole purpose of an SSD is not simply load times and boot times. Ever heard of transfer rate? Read and write speeds? This is equally as important as boot/load times. http://blog.condusiv.com/blog/image.axd?picture=2010%2f4%2fSSD+performance.jpg I still doubt you have an SSD. You have no idea how much space an OS takes, you have no idea what an SSD does alongside it's effectiveness against a HDD and you've completely ignored transfer and read/write speeds. Good work.

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  • What's that? I can't hear you over all the things I'm doing at blazing fast speeds on a HDD. Maybe you just have so much crap on your computer you need an SSD to make up the difference. Ok, so 20 GB is the OS, that leaves 80. Big whoopdee doo. That is 16.7% of your space and that does not include the space eaten up by the SSD itself. Read and Write speeds aren't slowing me down, so again, I think you're doing something wrong. And that image...so bad, looks like an excel graph someone made for school. If you need to transfer more than 50MB/s then you are doing way more than playing games. And your boot times are way off. My computer boots up in 20 seconds at most. Even 10-13 seconds is not going to kill me. Clearly you never had dial up. Your pics are such bad examples, I don't even know why I'm replying to them, but nonetheless, you haven't made me see the benefit of buying something with such little space for such a large amount of money. You should just give up, because you haven't justified the increase in price one bit.

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  • Edited by Derp: 2/4/2014 6:09:54 AM
    [quote]What's that? I can't hear you over all the things I'm doing at blazing fast speeds on a HDD.[/quote]While true PC gamers doing that faster on an SSD. [quote]Maybe you just have so much crap on your computer you need an SSD to make up the difference.[/quote]I've used up 100GB in total on my SSD. I also have a HDD with nothing on it. So no, i don't have so much crap. It's a new PC and i keep it as clean as possible. [quote]Ok, so 20 GB is the OS, that leaves 80.[/quote]120 - 20 = 100. You need help with maths, kid. [quote]That is 16.7% of your space and that does not include the space eaten up by the SSD itself.[/quote]So it seems you're the one with heaps of "crap" on your PC. You aren't meant to load the SSD with random stuff. You only put the important programs on it. If you're using up an SSD, you're doing it wrong. [quote]Read and Write speeds aren't slowing me down, so again, I think you're doing something wrong.[/quote]I'm literally laughing right now as you've basically admitted you don't have an SSD. Uhh... Yes they are slowing you down. Read and Write speeds are insanely faster on an SSD. It's just that you've never used an SSD so you have no idea what the difference is. [quote]And that image...so bad, looks like an excel graph someone made for school. If you need to transfer more than 50MB/s then you are doing way more than playing games.[/quote]Again, found it on the internet. I don't see how the graph's layout suggests inaccuracy? It seems you've completely lost the argument and now have to attack something utterly irrelevant. [quote]And your boot times are way off. My computer boots up in 20 seconds at most.[/quote]They aren't my boot speeds. They are comparisons i found on the internet of a PC with an SSD and a HDD. My PC boots in under 10 seconds. [quote]Even 10-13 seconds is not going to kill me. Clearly you never had dial up.[/quote]I've had dial up. The fact that you don't care about time doesn't mean other people won't. It's universally suggested in a gaming build. You seem to be the only person against it. You're overpriced pre-build PC didn't come with one, i'm guessing? [quote]Your pics are such bad examples, I don't even know why I'm replying to them[/quote] That is what is called an opinion. An opinion influenced by the fact that you know you've lost this argument so you will simply say anything i throw at you is a bad example or wrong. [quote]You should just give up, because you haven't justified the increase in price one bit.[/quote]Actually, yes i have. Boot speeds, load speeds, read and write times. Again, you bought a pre-build PC and you lied about having an SSD. Your argument is completely flopped. So, genius, if the OP shouldn't use that $100 on an SSD, where should it go? And his budget is $1000-$1500... So let me just say this: If you wouldn't buy an SSD with a budget that big, you have a severe mental problem.

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  • The only point you got me on is my slip up on the math (which is corrected later). And I don't remember saying I have an SSD unless I made a typo in a previous post. The comment on your graphs is that they are very specific and look like someone's high school project. They don't look like they were done by a good source (minus Tom's Hardware). Nothing you have spouted has justified that price increase for the small amount of storage. If you are having to micromanage your storage to keep the important stuff on the drive then all your time save is wasted, while I have just put crap on my computer, clean it up every once in a while and defrag to be just as efficient with less time wasted. So again, your argument is invalid. SSDs are luxury items at best until the price per GB drops to the same level as an HDD.

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  • Edited by Derp: 2/5/2014 2:13:39 AM
    I've justified the reason for buying an SSD clearly. I can't help you if you've failed to see this. You can continue telling me my argument is invalid but that doesn't make it invalid, especially when every single $1000-$1500 gaming PC always has an SSD in it. Every single one. Again, the way the graphs look doesn't render source reliable. Data is data. A comparison is a comparison. I still don't see why you're picking on the look of the graphs. I could go and test an SSD and a HDD, and compare them and put them on graphs that took me two seconds to do, and you're going to tell me it's unreliable? Seriously? Again, I can't help you if you wish to ignore any evidence I give you for absolutely stupid reasons. The fact that the price per gigabyte isn't a specific ratio is why you buy small SSDs. If you go and buy a 500GB SSD you are being insanely ripped off. You buy a 120GB one. All gamers do that. You still haven't told me what you would do with the $100. What are you willing to sacrifice super fast load times, boot times, read and write speeds, transfer speeds, efficiency and a long lifespan for? Please tell me. Remember, his budget is $1000-$1500. I want to hear this.

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  • I would not waste money on an SSD. Again, cost does not justify the improvement. Also, why spend that much on a gaming computer anyway? You could go spend $500 on a console and get something that developers will put games on for years and will last longer. At $1000-$1500 you are wasting money on something that needs to be updated and has a higher failure rate over time than a console.

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  • Just because you feel you personally don't need it, doesn't mean it shouldn't be purchased. There are insanely more gamers with SSDs than those without them, and I've given you the reasons why. So now you're wondering why he doesn't just buy a console? - PCs are infinitely cheaper in the long run. - Cheaper games. - Insanely more powerful (better graphics, textures, resolutions and frame rates). - Steam. (No explanation is required). - Mods. - Not tied on online service. - No paying for online. - Unlimited storage space. - Freedom to upgrade. - You can do everything on it. It's a PC damn it. The reason for forking out $1000-$1500 is so he can play with better resolutions, quality and frame rates along with all of the reasons mentioned above. Oh and at that budget you only need to upgrade every console generation as developers work from that standard.

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  • So, all the meaningless things in gaming are the reasons you should spend that much on a PC? The power doesn't mean anything. Games still look fine on the 360 and PS3. Shooting for anything more than that makes me think you have lost sight what makes a game worth playing. MMOs? You pay way more for that crap than a sub to PSN or XBL. Steam is nice, but it does not have everything. Games on the whole are cheaper, but the PC does not have everything. So again, you are not posting convincing reasons to spend that much on a PC.

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  • Edited by Derp: 2/5/2014 4:48:58 AM
    [quote]The power doesn't mean anything. Games still look fine on the 360 and PS3. Shooting for anything more than that makes me think you have lost sight what makes a game worth playing.[/quote]Power doesn't mean anything? You're either an idiot or you're trolling. Yes, games look fine on a 360/PS3, but they look way better on a PC. I highly doubt you're a gamer if you seriously think game quality, frame rate and resolution are not important. You've clearly lost sight of what makes a game worth playing. It's the gameplay + story + graphics. And guess what? Gameplay and graphics are greatly improved on a PC. On top of this, a $1000-$1500 PC is still cheaper than a console in the long run. What part of this don't you realize? It's only the intial cost that is higher. Once you start buying games the PC becomes cheaper. [quote]MMOs? You pay way more for that crap than a sub to PSN or XBL. Steam is nice, but it does not have everything.[/quote]> Implying all MMOs require a subscription fee. [quote]Games on the whole are cheaper, but the PC does not have everything. [/quote]PC has more than a console does... [quote]So again, you are not posting convincing reasons to spend that much on a PC.[/quote]Says the guy who bought a pre-built PC.

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  • False, graphics are not important when making a good game. Some of my favorite games have shitty graphics and could run on a netbook from 5 years ago. Gameplay is just fine on consoles, if anything it is more annoying on the PC to control things with a mouse and keyboard. If you say use a gamepad, you should just get a console. And false, console is only more expensive if you play heaps of games and don't wait for a good deal. Apparently you don't have a full time job so you don't realize how unimportant owning each game that comes out is. If you play the few titles you are truly excited for, then you save yourself a ton of money. The most well built MMOs require a sub, meaning most of the good MMOs require a sub. PC has a lot of games, but obviously not a lot that people are chomping at the bit to play. The majority of exclusives for the PC that I have seen are one offs and 2 hour plays at most. Nothing spectacular. Also, there is a large number that just do not work on consoles like MMOs and RTS. BTW, neither of those genres require overpowered PCs, so your argument, as pointed out several times, holds no value.

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  • The importance of graphics, resolution and frame rate is completely subjective. The fact remains that it is better on PC, and that's available for those who chose to do that. Why can't you understand that graphics, resolution and frame rates are REASONS for spending that much on a gaming PC. I don't give a shit if you don't care about that, but the majority think differently. Why the hell do you think there is hardware with that much power? Because no one cares about gaming quality and smoothness? Are you kidding me? You don't need to buy every game to make up for the price difference, but if you're building a PC for just a few games, you're an idiot. I said it's infinitely cheaper, meaning the more games you buy, the cheaper it becomes over a console. You build a PC with that in mind. Whether or not it's easier to control things on a gamepad or mouse/keybaord is also completely subjective. You find the keyboard/mouse more annoying because you simply suck with it. The keyboard/mouse is superior to the gamepad for FPS games for the crazy accuracy of a mouse and for MOBA games and some RPGs or MMOs where hot keys are important. Other than that, you use what you feel comfortable with. I game with a controller when i play racing games and some RPG games, then i switch to mouse/keyboard when i play FPS. You don't build a gaming PC for "a few titles you are truly excited for". You build it knowing you're going to get a better gaming experience along at a cheaper long term cost. Exclusives are completely subjective. Just because you can't play more than 2 hours on a PC exclusive, doesn't mean they're bad. I've owned a PS3 since launch day and i can tell you that i prefer PC exclusives any day. And there are thousands. A lot of which are free. Star Citizen is going to be great, IMO. But of course you personally would only get 2 hours out of it and therefore it sucks? Lolwut. Subscription fees on MMOs are extremely rare. You think WOW is the only MMO or something? A lot of amazing MMOs are even free. Guild Wars 2 is not well-built? Aion is not well-built? WildStar is not well-built? Path of Exile (free) is not well built? Dota 2 (free) is not well-built? League of Legends (free) is not well-built? Planetside 2 (free) is not well-built? [quote]BTW, neither of those genres require overpowered PCs, so your argument, as pointed out several times, holds no value.[/quote]Uh... You were the one that introduced those genres. Those aren't the only exclusives on PC. You don't build a gaming PC for MMO and RTS games... Can you at least understand the basics of PC gaming before you embarrass yourself? On top of this, you don't need an overpowered PC. Just enough power to make a console quality look bad. You can build one for under $700 that absolutely destroys a console in terms of quality. The point in more expensive rigs is purely for super high resolutions and for future-proofing. If you don't care about this stuff, then don't argue. Just understand that it's importance is SUBJECTIVE. I'm simply providing reasoning as to why one would do that. I don't see how my reasons were invalid when people build gaming PCs purely for those reasons. Lol.

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  • Saw how long your post was and decided not to read it. Obviously you cannot be convinced that your points are invalid, so I'm going to stop trying. Let's just agree that you are wrong.

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  • I'm right. But thank you for giving up and accepting the fact that you're completely wrong and can't possibly win this argument. GG kiddo.

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  • Nope, I just know a brick wall when I see one. Being blinded by your own ignorance does not make you right. I fully accept that computers can be made faster and stronger, but once you reach a certain point, the increase is performance does not justify the price. SSDs are a perfect example of that. You have no good points. And trust me, I am older than you.

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  • Whether it justifies the price is subjective because you clearly don't care about what an SSD has to offer. What you fail to realize is that there's no where else to spend the $100. It's not like his budget is $500. It's $1500. Nothing worth $100 will have as much impact on your experience on a PC as an SSD will. Once again, i don't see how my points were invalid when every gamer with a gaming PC does so because of the points i've already mentioned. You're the only one arguing. Saying my points are invalid doesn't make them invalid, genius. My point: Don't buy an SSD if your budget is low. BUT, don't even build a gaming PC if your budget is low because you could just buy a console. Build one if it's high. And since it's high an SSD is a small price to pay compared to the whole PC. And again.. You bought a pre-built PC and suggested someone else do the same. It doesn't matter what you say, it is quite clear you have no understanding of this topic. As Lemon said, you have zero credibility.

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  • Building a PC at $700 and buying my PC give minimal differences. So, you are wrong. Again, wrong. I know gamers with gaming PC who don't spend that much money on their PCs because they know you don't need to to get a functioning PC that plays pretty much everything. You're drawing away from the point you tried to make, which is an SSD is worth the $100 you think it is. (It isn't). I have more understanding of the value of time versus money and devaluation. I am spending a hell of a lot less money, getting the same experience, and when a part fails on my PC, it will have lasted just as long as the more expensive ones and I will feel no need to upgrade to a higher price range because by the time it does fail, the titans of this year will be the same price as the card I have currently. Same with every other part on my PC.

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  • Edited by Derp: 2/6/2014 6:21:27 AM
    Uhhh, you clearly have no understanding of the difference between building a PC and buying a pre-build PC. The seller makes money from ripping you off. They take advantage of the fact that you're too lazy to build your own, or you have no idea how to. No. I am not wrong. Again, you've completely missed the point of spending a lot of money on a gaming PC. People chose to do so because they want to play at very high resolutions or very high frames if their monitor's refresh rate is high. This is different to building a gaming PC that can run everything "fine". Again, it's subjective as to what you see as "fine" which is why there are people that spend a lot of money. [quote]You're drawing away from the point you tried to make, which is an SSD is worth the $100 you think it is. (It isn't).[/quote]No, i'm not drawing away from my point. You were the one that started the argument on why high end PC's are not worth it. The need for an SSD is subjective and it depends on you're budget, as i said earlier. You can't go around telling people it's not worth it especially when the majority of gamers are using them. You STILL haven't told me what the OP should do with that $100 instead of an SSD. Please tell me, i'm waiting. [quote]I have more understanding of the value of time versus money and devaluation.[/quote]Don't make me laugh. You bought a pre-built PC. Pretty much everything you have to say on this topic should be taken as false. [quote] am spending a hell of a lot less money[/quote]This tells me you have no idea what you're talking about. There is no way you've gotten a pre-built gaming PC cheaper than what it costs to build one. Sorry, but no one will believe you. Give up on this point. [quote]getting the same experience[/quote]No... You're not. You're experiencing extremely lower frames, lower graphics and textures, lower resolutions, lower load times in games. Outside of gaming you're experiencing much slower boot times, much slower read/write speeds, much slower transfer speeds. <<<<< This is why there are people that build high end machines. Just accept that and move on. [quote]and when a part fails on my PC, it will have lasted just as long as the more expensive ones and I will feel no need to upgrade to a higher price range because by the time it does fail, the titans of this year will be the same price as the card I have currently. Same with every other part on my PC.[/quote]Wooow... I'm sorry, but you are the most delusional person i've ever spoken to. The point in buying those expensive components is to gain a better gaming experience. Whether that difference in gaming experience is worth it to you is completely subjective. Here, i found you the definition of subjective seeing as you have no idea what it means: Subjective is when something is dependent on the mind or on an individual's perception for its existence.

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  • Saw the first 3 lines and stopped reading. I'm paying for someone to build my computer, ship it to me and give it a stamp of approval that guarantees it to work or they give me my money back. I will gladly spend $100 extra on a PC for that guarantee. If YOU break any individual component while building your PC, you have to buy another one. If YOU hook it up wrong and mess up your computer as a result, you have to buy another one. If YOU get a DOA part and can't figure out which one it is, YOU have to take the time to take it apart and figure it out. My time is more valuable than that to me, as is my peace of mind. You think that building your own PC is some kind of rite of passage and it's not. It simply means you'd rather not pay someone to build your PC and you want to take the risks I listed and others. But please, continue to spout how building a PC makes you superior to people who buy prebuilt, I'm sure every PC gamer in the world built theirs and I am the only one who bought prebuilt, so you won't offend me in the slightest.

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  • Edited by Derp: 2/6/2014 11:33:07 PM
    Saw the first 3 lines and stopped reading. You bought it prebuilt. You did not buy the parts and get someone to build it. Don't start lying just to prove some point which is already false. Your advice to the OP: [quote]Just buy prebuilt[/quote]I'm sure you did the same and i have no reason to believe otherwise. If you're honestly worried about doing something wrong while building your PC you're incompetent. It's one of the easiest things you'll ever do. There are thousands of videos and instructions to help if you have no idea what you're doing. There are insanely more people that recommend building one than not building one. This wasn't even the argument though. So i don't know why you've brought this into it. I'm just saying you have zero credibility and now you're opening a new argument. [quote]But please, continue to spout how building a PC makes you superior to people who buy prebuilt, I'm sure every PC gamer in the world built theirs and I am the only one who bought prebuilt, so you won't offend me in the slightest.[/quote]Don't remember saying i was superior. I just remember saying it's cheaper. The point is that you've never built one so you have no knowledge on this topic. The OP shouldn't listen to you when it comes to this.

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  • When you buy prebuilt, you are paying someone else to build it dumbass. Conversation over. You are now muted because it is not that you are a brick wall, it is that you are just an idiot.

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  • Edited by Derp: 2/6/2014 11:54:11 PM
    There's a difference between paying someone to build a PC with parts you've chosen and paying someone who's already built a PC with random components in it. Lol. [quote]Conversation over. You are now muted because it is not that you are a brick wall, it is that you are just an idiot.[/quote]Finally realized you don't have any valid points? Cute. Stay in school, kid.

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  • You bought a pre-built PC. [i]You have absolutely no credibility.[/i]

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