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originally posted in:Secular Sevens
originally posted in: Centralizing education: good or bad?
12/29/2013 2:08:57 AM
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The educational system isn't failing due to lack of funding. [url=http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/06/25/oecd-education-report_n_3496875.html]The United States spends more than other developed nations on its students' education each year, with parents and private foundations picking up more of the costs than in the past, an international survey released Tuesday found. Despite the spending, U.S. students still trail their rivals on international tests.[/url] The system is failing because of multiple causes. Not the least of which is the fact that the motivation of many educators and their students is sub-par. Focus on the self-image and confidence of the student has taken priority over performance. An "everyone passes" or "no one fails" mentality encourages and rewards mediocrity and discourages effort and excellence. High-schools have become a farm-league for college athletics which are then a farm-league for professional athletics. Parents also deserve some blame and responsibility. If they are not involved in the education or assignments of their children, then they are neglecting their role by assuming that "someone else is supposed to do that". While a standardized curriculum is fine, a federally funded and run program would be a terrible idea. Washington has a TERRIBLE track record of not tracking its money, overspending, and not caring about any outcomes or results. Healthcare.gov anyone?
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  • Social Security, Medicare/caid, NSA...

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  • Edited by Seggi: 12/31/2013 6:07:32 AM
    "Average" is a nice word, but, you know, it's not necessarily the best yard stick to use. You can tell that just by looking at mean versus median wealth. Edit: This is really a side-note, but it's absolutely absurd to say that the Obama administration doesn't care about the outcome or results of Healthcare.gov - making buying insurance accessible was (and remains, although from what I understand the numbers picked up quite a bit in December) a really important part of Obamacare being successful (i.e. getting more people insured and keeping premiums low). Besides, funding education is hugely different from overseeing a one-time programming contract job.

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  • I'm pretty sure he's referring to its massive failure.

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  • How about you read the actual post you're responding to next time, friend?

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  • I thought that lack of focus on self image and more focus on tests and grades was hurting student performance, not the other way around. So my question is, what in particular are schools doing that deemphasizes performance?

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  • [quote]The educational system isn't failing due to lack of funding.[/quote]Take the income in the U.S. for example. We're known as the most rich country in the world, but that doesn't mean we don't have widespread poverty. The same goes for average educational expenditures. You have a few at the top that holds up the average for everyone else at the bottom, effectively hiding the fact some schools are in dire need of funding. But you're right that funding isn't the only thing. There are other reformations that need to happen, such as a few that you've outlined. [quote]While a standardized curriculum is fine, a federally funded and run program would be a terrible idea. [/quote]Just as a clarification, this would be more of a state wide thing, as opposed to a federal thing.

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  • [quote]Just as a clarification, this would be more of a state wide thing, as opposed to a federal thing.[/quote] As long as students aren't singing praises to the Great Leader, I'll be fine. But I agree with those who say that a bottom-up system is far more accountable for its results and FAR more effective with its money.

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  • Do you think the education system would be improved if it took the Finnish approach? The Finnish, in case you don't know, take an equality of opportunity outlook as opposed to an equality of outcome view. The teachers are simply there to deliver the material and help the students, leaving it to the students' independence and willingness to prioritise subjects themselves and engage accordingly.

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  • I think that encouraging the students who are working hard is a good step. But there also has to be an overall culture that surrounds the students and encourages them to learn. Our society as a whole does not. We glamorize ignorance.

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  • Effort does nothing. If you suck at something, you will continue to suck no matter how hard you try. Effort only has value if you're already good at your job.

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  • That's simply bullshit.

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  • If I'm in a wheelchair, no matter how hard I try, I cannot get up and win the Olympic gold medal in track.

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  • physical limitations != mental limitations I suppose you could simply nocebo yourself, but even then the only thing stopping most people from self improvement is still a "can't be -blam!-ed" attitude, which is bullshit.

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  • Fine then. If I have a mental capacity of an 8-year-old, no matter how hard I try, I can never go to college.

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  • If you're 8, why are you on this site? No, stop selling yourself short and just put some effort in.

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  • This isn't even about me--those were just examples. I put effort into what I'm good at and avoid what I suck at. This is about how effective effort is. If you suck, you'll stay that way regardless of effort.

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  • Edited by Fallen Hero: 12/29/2013 2:31:21 AM
    Yeah our school developed a bunch of dumb rules after we absorbed inner city kids when their school shut down. Minorities couldn't be given more referrals than the population they make up (If there are 100 students and 25 are black, black students can't be given more than 1/4 of the referrals in a year). So if one or two trouble makers act up consistently the teacher simply has to put up with it. They also implemented rules saying the teachers couldn't discipline the inner city kids the same because they "came from a different culture". So they could beat box in class and wonder the halls along with other stuff and the teachers couldn't do anything to discipline them. It would also detract from everyone else's learning experience too. If they threatened to call the students parents they didn't care either A) because their parents didn't care B) The school couldn't reach their parents. It was a joke honestly.

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  • Edited by Banned Sparkles: 12/29/2013 2:20:08 AM
    [quote]We glamorize ignorance.[/quote] I agree. I think it's a problem with the West in general. The idolatry of the likes of the Kardashians and the mockery that is directed towards those who actually have an interest in a subject is incredibly frustrating. I know a guy in college with Asperger's who is absolutely brilliant at maths - you could give him any equation or mathematical problem and he could solve it in seconds. However, during free time in the Common Room, there is a group of "popular" girls (I'm surprised cliques still exist in college) who do it to him for the sake of their own amusement; they laugh at him every time he answers an incredibly hard problem in a few seconds. But of course, him being Aspergic, he doesn't understand that's what they're doing. I'll never understand why people have that mentality.

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