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originally posted in:Secular Sevens
originally posted in: World Government
Edited by cxkxr: 12/17/2013 12:57:40 AM
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Well, first and foremost, a western united govt is essentially already established, which is self-evident(at least to me) of the inevitability that said govt's will collaborate to consolidate more power over more territory in the name of "security" and "peace"(and said power will, without a doubt, be abused). Before I start, I'd agree that an [i]attempt[/i] for world govt is inevitable, but that doesn't necessarily mean we're doomed for such a civilization. I think we need to avoid the notion that a small group of elites can govern the world all together, and push for a more individualistic civilization instead. The only solution I can think of is economic and educational. Capitalism and [i]free[/i] markets where people can compete equally without govt coercion or intervention. Education, being the idea/principles of liberty needs to be taught to our children more adamantly, and what it takes to maintain freedom, and what responsibilities and morals one needs to uphold to thrive in a free society(and no more nanny state indoctrination!). Also as a footnote: Faith + virtue are crucial to free civilization, laws are NOT enough. Above education, morality is most important IMO. Now, the globalists have an easier argument to make bc they justify a one world govt thru force and perceived time the problems of the world can be solved(which is [i]never[/i] with their approach). My ideas, however, are not so appealing bc it's not easy, simple, but not easy, but doable. The ONLY way freedom can reign over all nations, is if we restore the USA back to it's glory of free markets and liberty and strong morals. I[b]f we manage to do that, innovation and prosperity will soon follow(again) and hopefully(more than likely) we can persuade other countries to adopt our methodology by [i]example[/i], voluntarily[/b](not thru military might). The US is literally the last stand on Earth for humanity to achieve freedom from authoritarian govt. I've sent to you a video lecture from former KGB agent Yuri Besmenov a while ago... I recommend you check that out if you haven't already. You'll get mass revelations from his talk.
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  • [quote]The only solution I can think of is economic and educational. Capitalism and [i]free[/i] markets where people can compete equally without govt coercion or intervention.[/quote] If you're talking about an unregulated market, I would massively disagree with the sentiment that we need to maintain that. We have laws for our conduct within society, why not have laws within our economies? Unregulated economies have typically been highly volatile.

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  • [quote]Who said anything about laissezze faire style capitalism? I wasn't being specific, I was talking generally about principalities.[/quote]

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  • >Well, first and foremost, a western united govt is essentially already established, which is self-evident(at least to me) of the inevitability that said govt's will collaborate to consolidate more power over more territory in the name of "security" and "peace"(and said power will, without a doubt, be abused). You mean… like an alliance? Where, you know, nations collaborate over key economic and security issues while retaining their own independence? The idea of the West as a single government is absurd, there are so many divides between our various countries over core issues that make up a state. Look at disagreements over security institutions, social safety nets, government structure, and trade policy. Each European nation is unique in its own right, even with an overarching economic alliance like the European Union. And it's blatantly obvious that America has a significantly different set-up than its European counter parts. The most recent strains between Europe and America over the Snowden leak exemplify that these nations are, in fact, sovereign nations. As does the reluctance of many European governments to invade Iraq, which is exactly why America's Coalition of Willing was essentially Poland, Britain and Australia.

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  • Yeah, hence the word "essentially", and "inevitably".

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  • Edited by Diplomat: 12/28/2013 5:22:38 PM
    [quote]Yeah, hence the word "essentially", and "inevitably".[/quote] But this overarching government isn't even "essentially" established. Western nations are clearly separate and show no intention of giving up that much sovereignty in the near or even far future. There is no strong foundation yet for unified government. So when will this "inevitability" be fulfilled, then? I mean, imperialism lends itself to nationalism and cultural superiority. If we see countries returning to their colonialist roots, then we would see a breaking up of alliances like the EU or NATO and a return to competition with one another over territory.

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  • [quote]But they're not even "essentially" the same government. They're clearly separate and show no intention of giving up sovereignty[/quote] This statement, [quote]If we see countries returning to their colonialist roots, then we would see a breaking up of alliances like the EU or NATO and a return to competition with over territory.[/quote] Contradicts this statement, no?

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  • How so?

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  • Edited by cxkxr: 12/28/2013 5:50:23 PM
    You state that they don't want to give up their sovereignty. Then you state that if they gave up their sovereignty (implying they aren't), it would be chaotic. No?

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  • Edited by Diplomat: 12/28/2013 6:19:48 PM
    >You state that they don't want to give up their sovereignty. I edited my original post a few minutes before you responded. I stated that they didn't want to give up that much sovereignty (as in total sovereignty, like a unified government). Any sort of alliance or union gives up a certain amount of sovereignty due to the bounds of the organization (i.e. certain European Union economic policies). >Then you state that if they gave up their sovereignty (implying they aren't), it would be chaotic. No, not at all. You stated that Western nations would inevitably become unified under one government to consolidate power over more territory. Expansionism generally lends itself to nationalism and exceptionalism. Nationalistic or exceptionalist countries aren't going to give up total sovereignty to join a unified government with other countries. That doesn't make sense. Thus, if Western nations ever returned to expansionist policies, the end result would be multipolarism. They would be vying against each other for more power over territory abroad. The political situation would resemble the interregnum between the Treaty of Westphalia and the advent of the Cold War, and probably more specifically the era of [url=http://rowdy.msudenver.edu/~tayljeff/lectures/NewImp.html]New Imperialism[/url] that preceded the First World War or the colonization of the Americas. edited to add "or" and a more specific example.

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  • Dude, a completely free market would only lead to more evil. The allowance of greed and corruption unchecked is bad, m'kay?

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  • Edited by cxkxr: 12/17/2013 7:09:49 AM
    Who said anything about laissezze faire style capitalism? I wasn't being specific, I was talking generally about principalities.

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  • Oh, k.

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