originally posted in:Secular Sevens
[quote]However, it also seems the only way for this to be effective is for it to be authoritarian. [/quote]
Screw that, having an authoritarian government or a one world government both sound awful. Why the Hell would I want both?!
English
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You wouldn't, that's the point. Politics seems to be heading towards bigger and bigger supranational unions, but the only way these could be effective as governments is to be authoritarian. It's a problem with no solution, really.
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Why do you think the only reason they could be effective is to be authoritarian. That's been your mantra but you've yet to back it up with any rationale. I don't dis-agree per-say but I've yet to see any sort of reasoning behind the postulation.
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Is it not self-evidently far easier to exercise control and attain goals by being controlling and manipulative? Just look at the privacy invasion, the boogeyman justification for wars, the expanded "security" measures, among other things.
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No it's not really self-evident because social engineering is far more complicated than trying to train a dog. Every single government that introduces surveillance will be resented and plotted against. Mass surveillance is unintelligent because it severely limits our capacity to focus on real threats. The NSA has not once stopped a plot, the TSA has not once stopped a terrorist. It is just an excuse for contractors. Mass surveillance is incredibly stupid because it is so damn wasteful.
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But it isn't a case of accomplishing the perceived goals. Granted, the NSA is inefficient, but the people are still being watched. Hell, they looked up porn habits to decredit radicals. And they've managed to get the public to consent to the incredibly invasive procedures of the TSA. It isn't about whether they're good at national security, it's whether the populace is receptive to such changes and government authority. Just look at the ad-hoc Martial law that was implemented in the hunt for the Boston Bombers. [quote]“The best way to take control over a people and control them utterly is to take a little of their freedom at a time, to erode rights by a thousand tiny and almost imperceptible reductions. In this way, the people will not see those rights and freedoms being removed until past the point at which these changes cannot be reversed.” - Adolph Hitler. [/quote] Not that I'm saying the U.S. government is on the same level as National Socialist Germany.
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Of course there's a solution! It's called keeping them small and keep transnational governments from becoming a thing.
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That's not going to happen, globalization has been happening since the dawn of agriculture, it's not ever going to stop. The only goals we should have is to maintain a lawful society with core principles that are set in place for the betterment of society.
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I don't believe that to be a possibility.
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Sure it is! Just use fear and terror to keep them in line!
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You're far too optimistic, Gaara <3
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A few chemical attacks and a couple of dozen world leader assassinations will be more than enough to put them in line.
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I think people are far too apathetic for that. In the Middle East or Africa or Asia, sure, but that's normally when they want to replace one sort of oppression for another. Do you really think North Americans and Europeans are capable of controlling their own governments?
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[quote]Do you really think North Americans and Europeans are capable of controlling their own governments? [/quote] Brainwash them enough and they'll support anything. Look at Stephen Colbert, he got people to donate money towards a fake campaign.
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Exactly, since the government controls the most comprehensive apparatus, how do you propose a reverse, pro-liberty, small-goverment de-indoctrination?
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Edited by Gaara444: 12/16/2013 10:29:00 PMSimple, we simply teach "Mein Kampf" in schools!
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I'm confused as to the progression of this conversation.
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Seems simple to me. We make students at a young age study the book "Mein Kampf" and suddenly we'll have a more intelligent youthful body ready to rise against our current affair.
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Yes, but considering the gov't controls education. . .
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Tell them you're using the book to teach the wrong doing of Hitler and The Third Reich, than teach them the truth in the actual classrooms.
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And then they can go home and get blasted by propaganda from their televisions.
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You don't need to worry about that, parents and government officials actively warn against using the TV, their own propaganda devices!