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12/2/2013 9:41:12 PM
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dmg04
dmg04

See you Starside. old

Do you find Muting/Hiding to be a hassle?

I've seen many complaints from users about self moderation, but I can't seem to understand the problem that everyone has with the new system. Bungie.old was governed by Employees and Moderators. Sometimes threads would slip through the cracks, sometimes Reports would go unheeded as the offensive content was only offensive to the reader, rather than the community as a whole. Now that you have the power to Mute people who you find to post offensive content constantly, what exactly is the problem? Now that you have the power to Report/Block a post that you found to be annoying or "against the rules", what is the problem? Are you more worried about the experience of others than your own? Do you believe that users of this website should be dealt hammers as opposed to your viewership? Are you just annoyed by seeing lines of text letting you know that there is blocked content that you could potentially view? Please chime in, let your thoughts be heard, and explain to this numbskull how the new system is detrimental to Bungie.net, as opposed to relying on a small force of unpaid (albeit sexy) forum moderators to censor and dictate your experience.
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  • 0
    this is what I'd do to make the controlling members of the site happier. Change Hide to Internet Punch this User Change Report to Tell Mom about this User Change Mute to Get this Snake Off My Plane
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  • Edited by Recon Number 54: 12/11/2013 12:39:03 PM
    Since it is the exact same steps that I would have to go through in order to place a ban? No. Now, if another member considers the mute/hide/report process (all three clicks) to be too time consuming and doesn't want to go through that effort, and yet still expects "someone else to clean up this crap"? Welcome to my world.
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    • #Oldways
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    • Edited by Der Todesengel: 12/11/2013 12:54:25 PM
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      Der Todesengel
      Der Todesengel

      My Backpack brings Wronghorn to the Yard - old

      My only issue with the new system remains the ability to change your name and the existence of a "Unique" name and a "Display" name. You should get ONE identity and it should be UNCHANGEABLE. You picked a dumb name? SUCKS TO BE YOU. I do like the muting system though I do not understand why bans even exist anymore, since a shitposter is back in minutes WITH THE SAME NAME. Remove the offensive content, don't bother with the ban. - Der
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    • I want muted threads to disappear from the site completely like comments in a thread. If someone's spamming shit ( which is happening at the moment) then there's just a huge wall of hidden threads. It's pointless to mute for that reason alone.
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    • I rather enjoy being in control of my visible content over leaving it to others to decide the issue for me.
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    • Edited by Hatima: 12/10/2013 11:02:19 PM
      I like what Bungie has given us and will use it when necessary. In the long run it will pay off.
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    • Edited by Hawke: 12/10/2013 10:59:26 PM
      I've only muted 1 person for possibly being a pedophile. Nothing that was ban worthy, sadly.
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    • Edited by ChorrizoTapatio: 12/3/2013 10:09:49 AM
      I have no issues with the current muting/hiding system we have in place, but I'm not easily offended by people. I also believe people can change if they really want to so I don't use the mute feature very offten. I do sometimes miss the weigh moderators carried around the site, however. Sometimes I even miss the title system that sort of kept people in line (no one wanted to lose their hat and therefore behaved). I do believe that people focus on the words of other now rather than their title, which can be nice, but without some sort of reward system in place people will just go on being a jerk or being offensive. But, that's a discussion for another time. I have a sort of "3 strikes rule" with the mute button, and it has to be something pretty offensive for me to mute them. Thus far I have only muted 4 individuals whom I could no longer tolerate. I have since then unmuted a couple of them but then I quickly muted them once again. I use this feature sparingly because I want to give people a chance. I know damn well I'd have already muted the user I was when I first started signing onto b.net. That may be one of the issues with these tools though, not everyone has the patience to give a user a chance at redemption and that is kind of lame. I don't think it ever crosses anyone's mind to clear out their cache of muted users to offer them a second (or 3rd in my case) chance. I can agree with DD Death when he says that it hurts the overall sense of community, but it can't be helped when people mute others because they simply said something opposing their own views. As for the abuse of global mutes? Something automated [i]can[/i] be abused and it shouldn't come to a surprise. I think a better alternative to this automated global mute would to have the power be in the proper hands: the ninjas and the webteam. Let's say when a user recieves enough mutes, they would be added to a que that all ninjas can view (similar to be ban system that may or may not still be in place). The ninjas will be offered a chance to view this user's recent posts and based off of that will be given the option to vote on whether or not this user deserves a global mute. If enough ninjas vote yes, another que will appear for the webteam to allow the final verdict for said user and determine whether it would be a temporary global mute (which they would be notified of) or a perminant global mute (based off of past temp global mutes as well as bans). The later would be similar to a perma ban of b.old. Alright there's my 2 cents on that. [spoiler]Sorry for the wall o' text.[/spoiler]
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      • Only when it comes to having to re-mute alts of alts of alts of alts. Hiding threads is mostly pointless. If I don't want to see it, it is because there is something about that thread or post I feel crossed a line. That's report territory, which in effect 'mutes' the post / thread.
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        No one on this site is terrible enough for me to mute them, so I can't relate
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      • Per single person I want to mute? It's no hassle. For a single person with a LOT of alts (I consider about 4 alts to be very tiny, and a lot to be around 40-50)? It's too much of a hassle. I'd be grateful for someone to make up a script or something that would immediately mute someone based on their posting style, but there's too many factors to cover for that script to function properly.
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      • The only hassle on this site is you, dmg. You and your damn threads and your damn skinny jeans, and your damn amazingness and your damn lack of a mythological flying reptilian creature.
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        • Edited by FalkenHunter705: 12/3/2013 5:20:13 PM
          Honestly, I find it to be better in the respect that I can filter out shitposters and some of the more annoying members that may or may not have been banned previously. The only problem that I have is that less time spent banning means fewer IP bans that would prevent the constant muting of troll alts, which really gets old after a while. [spoiler]Yes, I'm looking at you, Camnator.[/spoiler]
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        • It's a fine system until you take into account that their are a lot of alts... A LOT. For every person I mute three more spring up into their place. The Webteam needs to bring back the IP Uber Ban.
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        • [quote]Sometimes threads would slip through the cracks, sometimes Reports would go unheeded as the offensive content was only offensive to the reader, rather than the community as a whole.[/quote]But we had rules that expressly stated what should and should not be reported, neh? [quote] Are you more worried about the experience of others than your own? [/quote]Partly. [quote]Do you believe that users of this website should be dealt hammers as opposed to your viewership?[/quote]Not sure what that means. [quote] Are you just annoyed by seeing lines of text letting you know that there is blocked content that you could potentially view?[/quote]Yes.[quote] explain... how the new system is detrimental to Bungie.net, as opposed to relying on a small force of unpaid (albeit sexy) forum moderators to censor and dictate your experience.[/quote]Muting is great, but not as a primary tool. It would be the best forum in the world if it were a secondary tool. Getting rid of rules only hurt the community. People that are muted still get posts unhidden- so I think they shouldn't be visible at all- because it's too tempting to see what was posted as is. Yet global muting has been proven to not work since it can be manipulated. Honestly, I feel like the current system would work fine if we had one major change: Give certain people the ability to global mute for obvious asshattery. Because that's the problem here- the people making account after account, crappy thread after crappy thread just to rile people up. Let the moderators globally mute people they deem to be intentionally causing harm to the community (so no bullshit toeing the line bans like on old Bnet- only blatant, obvious, intentional stuff). And don't show their hidden posts until the ban is up, if then. Or hell, remove all tags from the posts they make so they can't be searched for. I don't know- something like that. This way people will still be able to mute minor offenders they just don't like (which is what the feature should be used for- annoyances, not detriments to the community), and the community as a whole doesn't have to worry about people ruining the whole experience for everybody... and for newcomers. And since they can still post, they won't realize they were globally muted for a while longer, so we're free of alternate accounts for a much longer time than we were before. That's what I'd like. Sure it puts a lot of faith in the moderators, and I trust some more than others, but as long as the 'blatantly intentional' coding rule was followed then it shouldn't be a problem.
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        • Edited by A 3 Legged Goat: 12/3/2013 12:02:48 AM
          Muting and Hiding don't remove the content from the site. If I sign out or log on another account, the threads are still there. The problem is that self moderation now has more mindshare than global moderation. The masses are more likely to "moderate" content on an entirely subjective level, leaving inappropriate and often rule breaking posts and threads to flourish and run free. Moderators are less biased and in place specifically to adhere to the forum rules, though what content does or doesn't get filtered there is, again, subjective (though no where near as much) because they are only human. And therein lies an inherent problem. [i]Human[/i] judgement has been replaced for automated "hide" systems which are expected to function properly with more than one variable in place. As we are all well aware now, abusing this system is a breeze, and we need to worry about the mean time before it is supposedly rectified. Thus, we come to a crossroads. On the one hand, relaxing the rules was a good change. Muting and Hiding are healthy evolutions of our once primitive user interaction experience. But on the other hand, we must not forgo forum rules and moderation or "lay off" our ninjas. If anything, Muting and Hiding should be more effective in delivering content to them for their less biased viewing. Without active moderators backing the system, threads like "X console owners are phaggots and should kill themselves" remain on the front page because the community thinks it's funny to post in them. Lurkers can't hide these, and new members who don't understand the system think the forums have no restraint. If that's their cup of tea, these kind of threads begin to snowball with new members' help. Bungie must make a choice. They either up the ninjas' presence in addition to sorting the issues with automated systems and user controls, [i]or[/i] they simply offer a few tweaks to the system and leave it at that. I'm not buying their "control your own user experience" anymore because I've already muted/reported 400 accounts and I not only still see stupid threads and posts being made, but also have no guarantee anything was done to them. Giving users "moderation tools" in place of actual moderation screams laziness and a lack of control over the forums to me. The new tools should be a ways to assist that control, not one to replace it. Again, the problem is the people posting these stupid threads are expected to hide and report these stupid threads. TL;DR: Fix the system and slap ninjas with more wet noodles.
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          • 1
            I love the new system, I can get rid of all of the people who I do not care to see, ever. The only issue I want fixed is the moderation by the actual moderators, or probably the webteam. Idiots like Rose and Camnator need to be IP banned so they can't spam hundreds of alts all over the site.
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            • Edited by Commander Scurvy: 12/2/2013 11:41:23 PM
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              Commander Scurvy
              Commander Scurvy

              Make Mordor great again. - old

              I personally don't have a problem with it. When I see someone complaining about how there is no moderation on this site I usually just assume that person has not taken the time to fully look at all the features given to them. If you see something you don't like, hide it. Is it the same person over and over again? Mute them. It's not hard.
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            • Edited by Stalwart: 12/2/2013 11:16:46 PM
              I've gotten used to it. Anything I find dumb, useless, or offensive I pretty much just hide. If I can tell that the OP will continue the trend of terrible threads, then I will mute. For example: Camnator and his army of alts, waifu master v1, and onion beetle and his army of Fox News impersonating alts.
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            • Edited by Duck duck DEATH: 12/2/2013 10:53:43 PM
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              Duck duck DEATH
              Duck duck DEATH

              irrelevant elitist - old

              [quote]Now that you have the power to Mute people who you find to post offensive content constantly, what exactly is the problem?[/quote]I think the ability to mute is the problem. While hiding posts only impacts one post, the act of muting is very different. When you hit mute, you don't just block the offensive post, you hide an entire user of posts. Posts that you might not all find offensive, and some even insightful. It's perfectly fine to skim over posts, but if there is a system in place that hides content from you, you'll never be able to discern if you're missing something without having to forcibly display it. I would also suspect that having to go out of your way to click "view" on hidden posts will make users less likely to do so. dmg, you've been here a long time, and I'm certain you've witnessed people grow here. Not everyone acts like they did five years ago. Additionally, the more people use the mute future, the more "personalized" aka hidden parts of the site become. While you may be happy in your little agreeable-content-only bubble, you'll be unable to see the site as a whole. The more people who ignore, the more users will be separated, and ultimately the overall community will become fragmented and unaware of itself. [quote]Are you more worried about the experience of others than your own[/quote]The experience of users impacts their posting, which directly impacts my own experience. While some may say everything should be personalised and seperate, the reality is that these boards are a social place of shared experience. [quote]Please chime in, let your thoughts be heard, and explain to this numbskull how the new system is detrimental to Bungie.net, as opposed to relying on a small force of unpaid (albeit sexy) forum moderators to censor and dictate your experience.[/quote]Personally I dislike both the previous system of moderation and the current. I would much prefer forums with little user filtering/muting while also maintaining a bare-bones rule system similiar to our current one and based off the Terms of Use (current CoC is a -blam!-ing joke). The forum users could discourage undesirable behaviors while the moderation team exist solely to remove content that could be considered illegal or compromising. I don't believe in most of the rules here, but I can understand most of the ToU. The forums should be as respectful and unoffending as the users; honest discussion before civility.
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