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originally posted in:Secular Sevens
10/3/2013 6:52:29 AM
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There isn't one, capitalism has been cannibalizing itself since the start of neoliberalism. We should smash capitalism as soon as possible. Transition to a scientifically planned economy where the means of production are socially owned. In short, Marxist Socialism.
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  • By 'means of production are socially owned', you mean 'owned by the government'. By that, you mean going in and taking away private property. Which is an overreach of the government.

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  • Edited by Deathcon 5: 10/5/2013 7:02:10 PM
    No, owned by the workers. Social ownership in Marxist terms means worker ownership. The only way private property can exist is with a government of some sort protecting it (from the people it was stolen from), social ownership does not need a government.

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  • Edited by Diplomat: 10/5/2013 8:49:09 PM
    The factory is not owned by the workers, it is owned by the employer who manages, employs, and is responsible for the workers. That is how it works, and how it should work. Social ownership is mobocracy, and lacks the protection delegated to the individual. The workers do not have a right to their employer's property. They have a right to fair pay, benefits, decent hours, and not to be arbitrarily discriminated against.

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  • The worker's have the right to the full product of their labor, and to determine the conditions in which they toil. This is taken by the owner, coercively by creating an army of surplus labor and undemocratic management of labor. "Social ownership is mobocracy, and lacks the protection delegated to the individual." Au contraire, workers are all individuals and and with consensus they will protect the whole's rights. However they will not protect exploitative individuals who try to take what is not theirs. For the owner to 'own' the factory, they must seize it (originally) from the commons: the land and the resources. The planet is the commons. Everyone is entitled to its non-coersive fair use.

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