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originally posted in:Secular Sevens
originally posted in: Gmail users shouldn't expect privacy
8/14/2013 6:44:46 PM
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Why is everyone so pissed? Its not like there is a person reading those emails. They use text recognition software to flag statistically significant terms to build a profile. No human every really lays eyes on the emails. Besides, its a company offering a free service. If you want privacy in your communications, use your own email servers, or send a letter snail mail via the post office.
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  • Two answers to your question: One, the fact that emails are read by machines rather than humans does not make it any less an invasion of privacy -- especially because the info that is gleaned from your emails is used to build an intimate, detailed profile that can be used to target you for advertisements or, perhaps sometime in the future, something even more sinister. It's not like there are any serious restrictions placed on Google's ability to gather and exploit this data. Second is that dozens of other free, web-based email services respect your privacy and do not comb through your emails, in an automated fashion or otherwise. "It's a free service" is clearly not a valid justification for this behavior.

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  • How are these dozens of free, web-based email services making money? Presumably ads. Do you [i]know[/i] they aren't combing through your emails? Unless you're paying for it, I don't think it's reasonable to assume that.

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  • I guess there's always the possibility that they're lying to you in their privacy policies, but that doesn't make it unreasonable to assume that they aren't.

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  • If Gmail made no attempt to provide this as a private service, why the shock and surprise? Its not like they said it was completely private. They provide a service, for individuals at least, that is free of charge. The price, if you call it that, is their ability to create that profile and sell it to companies for marketing uses. It doesn't reveal anything really about you as a person. If Google had said "guys, use our service, it's private," and then went on to release an email version of failblog with everything about you along with your most embarrassing emails, then OK. What confuses me here is that no effort has been made to define what privacy really is. There is precedent with respect to some aspects. But has it been established that user #2000987623 aka "Foman123" likes vanilla ice cream and shopping at Target is in fact a breach in privacy?

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  • Well like I said before, nobody should be shocked or surprised by this. Consumer advocacy groups and competing email services have been loudly criticizing Google for this for years. But your question is why are people pissed off about it, and that was the answer. As far as what constitutes a breach of privacy, I think you're being intentionally minimalist, though I don't really know why you'd do that -- it seems to me to be actually harmful to believe that Google only knows what kind of ice cream you like. Obviously, for the vast majority of people, the amount of information that can be gleaned -- and exploited -- from a person's "main" email address is far greater than your shopping preferences. If I used Gmail as my main account, Google would, just by virtue of crawling my email, know my full name, including my middle name, several of my usernames/passwords to other websites, my address, who I have credit cards and bank accounts with, my current credit score, where I work, where I shop, the names of ALL of my family members and most of my friends, and most of the major events that have happened in my life over the last decade (housing, cars, jobs, significant others, etc.). In fact, they'd be able to build a nearly 100% complete profile of my entire life over the duration of that email account. And because Google admittedly collects this information as it enters your inbox, deleting emails doesn't help (like it would to prevent hackers from getting info about you). Unless you're living completely off the grid, you need an email address to function in today's world. And if you're using Gmail for that, the information that Google knows about you is far more than just your favorite ice cream. And that information can be used and exploited. So yeah, it's a breach of privacy.

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  • Well I know for sure that if Microsoft was reading my conversations on MSN Messenger, they would know everything about me... Fortunately I rarely send e-mails though.

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  • Yes, they do have access to that. They are one of how many free email services? I don't even consider them the best. Maybe the most well known, but not the best. But anyway, if this knowledge is out there, and it is, then why should there be any expectation of privacy when its explicitly stated that you will not have it from this service? And it is up to you to provide them with your name and such. Anyone can create a gmail account, with whatever fake info they choose. We wouldn't have so many Alts around here if it weren't so easy. If you choose to put that stuff out there, that's your own lookout. I just think you and I should agree to disagree on this. I have a good idea where you stand, and you see where I stand on this. I don't think ANYONE should have ANY degree of privacy on line. I think anonymity is what makes the internet's worst excesses possible.

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  • Edited by FoMan123: 8/14/2013 7:39:05 PM
    I sense that you don't want to keep talking about this, but I'll respond anyway. Feel free to ignore in favor of talking about masturbation or Christianity vs Atheism or whatever else it is you're posting about now. But anyway, for the third time in four posts: I don't think people should expect privacy on Gmail. That's why I think people should use any of the other numerous free email services where they can. As far as not having any degree of privacy online, that's just ridiculous, Charlie, and I'm sure you know it. Do I even need to say why? You keep certain things private no matter whether it's "the internet" or "real life" -- your bank account numbers, your credit cards, your social security number, and even to some extent your other personal information such as your address, phone number, information about your family, or just plain stuff that you don't want the world to know. These are all things that might appear in email. Demanding that these things remain just as private online as they do in the rest of your life is certainly not outrageous, nor does it encourage any of the bad behavior you're talking about. In fact, it discourages it.

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  • To a degree. Damaging info, such as those numbers, yes. That said, your name and preferences, not so much. Maybe your username might be different than your real name, but people should know who you are. I think we'd have less online bullying and the worst examples of trolling if people couldn't hide behind their anonymity.

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