JavaScript is required to use Bungie.net

Forums

originally posted in:Secular Sevens
5/28/2013 4:35:40 AM
22
I don't believe in that stuff, but I have to say I'm really starting to like and respect this Pope Francis guy. He seems much more open-minded and humble than I expected.
English

Posting in language:

 

Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

  • Too bad he's being extremely hypocritical against his own religion.

    Posting in language:

     

    Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

  • Except no, he's not.

    Posting in language:

     

    Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

  • Yes, he is. Do I need to bring up the Bible verses regarding this matter? Do I really need to?

    Posting in language:

     

    Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

  • Nope. You don't. The Pope knows a hell of a lot more about the Bible then you do, you know, seeing as how he is Christ's representative on Earth. He's right and you're wrong.

    Posting in language:

     

    Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

  • Edited by Uncle Putin: 5/29/2013 6:42:30 AM
    *facepalm* That's the attitude that allows the mass mind control of the Catholic church to persist. Alright, time for some detoxification. [quote]“Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’ 23Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’ Matthew 7:21-23[/quote] In this verse, Christians are coming to the Lord on judgement day and proclaiming to him that they did many good works in his name. However, because they did not follow the will of God, he will send them away. So if many so called "Christians" won't even make it, people who prophesied in God's name, then how can you possibly think that people who reject God all together even have the slightest of chances at making it into heaven? And I'd like to see where in the Bible that the Pope was appointed as Christ's representative. Oh right, I forgot. I doesn't say it anywhere :(

    Posting in language:

     

    Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

  • So what? The Bible isn't the only authoritative source in Christianity. The Catholic Church is just as important.

    Posting in language:

     

    Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

  • So the word of man is now greater than the word of God himself? Okay. Who gave the church the authority to tell God that he's wrong?

    Posting in language:

     

    Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

  • The Bible was written by men, and men make mistakes. The Church is guided by God to get past those mistakes.

    Posting in language:

     

    Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

  • Edited by Uncle Putin: 5/29/2013 8:25:31 PM
    [quote]The Bible was written by men, and men make mistakes.[/quote] So even if God didn't even inspire any single part of the Bible, then why do Catholics use it as their foundation? If they deny the very foundation of their faith, then they are nothing more than blind sheep. [quote]The Church is guided by God to get past those mistakes.[/quote] How is it guided by God? Where did God say that he would guide the Catholic church? You see, saying that God guides the Church and that a mere mortal has more of a say in a matter than God himself is a scapegoat for going against the word of God. The fact of the matter is that the Church is becoming increasingly unscriptural in nearly every single facet imaginable. The baptism of babies (because they totally understand the consequences of being baptized and what it truly means), weekly rituals where the priest hardly even opens the Bible (if at all), there are no sermons to help people deal with life's problems etc. The Church has become this mass mind control where whatever the Pope says goes, because he has more say than God! [url=http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Mark%207&version=NIV]Read this.[/url] [url=http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Exodus+20%3A4&version=ESV]And this.[/url] So I ask again, where is this supposed power that you claim ever given to the Pope? Since when did the Pope have more power than God himself? If atheists can go to heaven now, even though the Bible clearly states over and over again that this is not the case, people who completely reject God all together and who do not follow his teachings, then why can't murderers and thieves and rapists go to heaven to? I'm not trying to equate Atheists with them, but it's just so absurd that Catholics think that they can just deny the very words of God and replace scripture with their own desires so that Christianity fits everyone. It doesn't work like that and it never has. [quote]6 I am astonished that you are so quickly deserting the one who called you to live in the grace of Christ and are turning to a different gospel— 7 which is really no gospel at all. Evidently some people are throwing you into confusion and are trying to pervert the gospel of Christ. 8 But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let them be under God’s curse! 9 As we have already said, so now I say again: If anybody is preaching to you a gospel other than what you accepted, let them be under God’s curse! Galatians 1:6-7 NIV[/quote] [quote]18 I warn everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this scroll: If anyone adds anything to them, God will add to that person the plagues described in this scroll. 19 And if anyone takes words away from this scroll of prophecy, God will take away from that person any share in the tree of life and in the Holy City, which are described in this scroll. Revelation 22:18-19 NIV[/quote] [quote]If the blind lead the blind, both will fall into a pit. Matthew 15:14 NIV[/quote] It's obvious to me that the Catholic church is very blind, seeing that they think they have the authority to add and take away from the very word of God.

    Posting in language:

     

    Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

  • The Pope is not more powerful then God, the Pope speaks in place of and represents God. It is also clear that if atheists who were good people could not go to Heaven, then a very core tenant of God's nature would be violated; God's omnibenevolence. If good people are damned to Hell, then God is neither omnibenevolent, or just. Therefor atheists, or anyone from any other belief, must be able to enter Heaven if they live a good life worthy of God's mercy.

    Posting in language:

     

    Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

  • Edited by Uncle Putin: 5/30/2013 10:44:41 PM
    [quote]The Pope is not more powerful then God, the Pope speaks in place of and represents God.[/quote] God gave that right to Jesus only, and nowhere does the Bible ever state that a mere mortal man has the same stature of Jesus Christ. Please show me where this right is given to the Pope. I'm still waiting for it. The only reasoning you've given me for the Pope having the same place as Christ is "because the Church said so." [quote]It is also clear that if atheists who were good people could not go to Heaven, then a very core tenant of God's nature would be violated; God's omnibenevolence.[/quote] I don't think that you read anything of what I said. Romans 3:23 says that we have all sinned and fallen short of the glory of God, and in Romans 6:23, it says that the wages of sin is death. With that being said, God is NOT fair. If he was, we would all be burning in hell for an eternity for the sins that we have committed. However, he is a merciful God and we can accept his grace if we are baptized into Christ and follow his will. [quote]Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God. John 3:18 ESV[/quote] [quote]Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life; whoever does not obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God remains on him. John 3:36 ESV[/quote] I have given you multiple passages that all directly contradict what you are suggesting, and I have yet to see where God has given the Pope this right. Those passages [i]directly said[/i] that people who do not believe in God or his son will receive the wrath of God himself. God has set the standard for what is right and fair, and those who deny his grace will receive the punishment for sin: death. That's what is laid out in the Bible, so you saying that God made a mistake when he was writing it is just absolutely absurd.

    Posting in language:

     

    Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

  • Can I ask you, what denomination are you, exactly?

    Posting in language:

     

    Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

  • Church of Christ. Why does it matter? Does my Protestant label invalidate what the Bible says?

    Posting in language:

     

    Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

  • No, but it invalidates your interpretation of the Bible.

    Posting in language:

     

    Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

  • [quote]No, but it invalidates your interpretation of the Bible.[/quote] That's where I stop arguing with you. Sorry we couldn't come to a reasonable conclusion.

    Posting in language:

     

    Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

  • Edited by Entraps: 5/31/2013 7:35:01 AM
    It's clear that no conclusion can ever be reached. I am Catholic, and you are Protestant, and nothing either of us could say would mean anything to the other. I was just trolling with the above statement, though.

    Posting in language:

     

    Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

  • I suppose you're right. I just find it disgusting that the entire Catholic church can completely disregard whatever the Bible says simply because they think it's wrong. Sin does not change. God does not make mistakes. If he did make mistakes, then I don't even want to be following him because then he's not really omnipotent. I actually had a conversation with a local priest and I asked him a few questions regarding the Bible. He basically had the same beliefs as you in that the Pope's word trumps God's word (and 2 Timothy 3:16 tells us that the Bible is his word) on literally any matter. However, I asked him where the Pope got this power to overrule God's commands on certain matters and he just replied with something to the effect of "Well the Church was established to interpret the Bible so that misinterpretations couldn't take place, and the Pope overlooks the process." He completely avoided my question, and as of today I still have yet to find the scripture that states that the Pope can override what the Bible says. The Church has had a terrible history of mass mind control, and back in the renaissance age, the only people allowed to read the Bible were the priests. Commoners were forbidden from reading the Bible. Nowadays, the Church doesn't run the state so they're subjected to the laws of the state, and they can't limit what books people can and can't read. Even though modern "commoners" can now read the Bible, the Catholic church still inundates the youth with this notion that any interpretations of the Bible that you make that are found to contradict the sacred doctrines of the church are unequivocally wrong. Catholics then avoid certain scriptures that they KNOW contradict the doctrines of the Church because they've been brainwashed into believing that even though it may [i]seem[/i] that the Bible is directly contradicting the Church, they must be reading it wrong. It just sickens me. Catholics like yourself argue with Protestants like myself and say that Protestants are always wrong because "the church said so."

    Posting in language:

     

    Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

  • Aye, God does not make mistakes. The portions of the Bible that are not fully accurate are mistakes made by the men who wrote it. God may have told them what to write, but they weren't puppets without the free will to add or subtract things as they pleased. Other parts of the Bible that some people take literally may simply be metaphors. If we were to take the Bible completely literally, wouldn't we then be stoning heathens and talking about how flat the Earth is and how men lived with dinosaurs at the dawn of the world 6000 years ago?

    Posting in language:

     

    Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

  • Then why do you follow a God who cannot even write a book correctly? He obviously doesn't have the power to pick out the few people in the world who would follow exactly what he commands of them, so instead he writes a partly true book that is riddled with things that he never meant to say, and he therefore relies on another set of holy popes and priests to interpret what he was trying to say, fully knowing that they are completely subject to the same disease called free will that the authors of the Bible were.

    Posting in language:

     

    Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

  • The bible was written by man.

    Posting in language:

     

    Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

  • Yes, it was.

    Posting in language:

     

    Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

  • Edited by Uncle Putin: 5/31/2013 6:34:37 AM
    Double post.

    Posting in language:

     

    Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

You are not allowed to view this content.
;
preload icon
preload icon
preload icon