JavaScript is required to use Bungie.net

Forums

originally posted in:Secular Sevens
5/19/2013 4:04:58 AM
3
I'm sorry if this sounds, or is, arrogant but I feel like I carry some weight on issues regarding the Middle East. I'm going to speak directly to a few members that are currently discussing something in this thread. You'll know who you are. [quote]Western Muslims aren't necessarily violent (an example being my Muslim friend), but a nonviolent Muslim from the Mideast is a rarity. [/quote]There are violent people everywhere, regardless of religion. [quote]It doesn't justify a lot of the shit Israel does.[/quote]The "shit" that Israel does doesn't justify a lot of the shit the Palestinian terrorists groups do. [quote]They have been dropping White Phosphorous, killing civilians in the process.[/quote]You're speaking as if Israel still does this. They've banned the use of the agent. [url=http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/world/israelis-to-ban-white-bombs/story-fnb64oi6-1226630287675]Source[/url]. [quote]Most Mideastern Muslims view us as infidels. Not all of them (e.g. Curds), but most of them. Much of Islamic doctrine is based upon the opposition of Judaism and Christianity.[/quote]No and no. I wouldn't say that [i]most[/i] hate us. A lot? Sure. But most? No. About the other thing: That's a generalization. The Islamic doctrine, as a whole, is not based on the opposition of Judaism and Christianity. What you're looking for is the doctrine of Salafist jihadists, Wahhabists, Islamists, and a thing called Willayat al-Faqih. [quote]Islam was by far a peaceful religion, until the establishment of Israel.[/quote]That's a debatable statement. I've seen scholars say that towards the end of the Ottoman Empire is when Islam started getting radicalized in the modern times, I've also seen them argue it was Israel, and I've also seen that the Soviet War in Afghanistan/Islamic Revolution in Iran is/was the major reason (seen this the most, surprisingly). [quote]n further regards to your post, Middle Eastern countries are the allies of the United States. Kuwait houses strategic airbases, Saudi Arabia is a counterweight to Iran, and Bahrain facilitates the H.Q. of 5th fleet. In fact, the G.C.C. in general furthers our regional interests. So instead of using geographically incorrect terms to describe nations who are relatively pro-U.S., why don't you just call them pro-U.S.? Dealing with American geography misnomers aside, we do have to pander to Middle Eastern hatred of Israel. That's why we begged Israel not to retaliate during the Gulf War in '91, because the Gulf nations we were relying on for rear and flank protection would have left our nifty coalition.[/quote]Are you saying that we should pander more to the G.C.C states rather than Israel or stop supporting Israel in general? Both would be terrible foreign policies and I think that you know that we have to find a happy medium with the Israel hatred spectrum. We have keep both sides happy. Just making sure what you're meaning, here. [quote]Okay, but remember that we radicalized Iran through both Operation Ajax and Iraqi Freedom. I mean, they are the product of our own policy stupidity.[/quote]You're right about Ajax, sure, but for OIF, I'd argue that by that time, they were already pretty damn radicalized. [quote]Now then, Pakistan is an enemy... sort of kind of. It's difficult to define, but yeah, I'd just consider them an enemy for the purposes of our discussion. [/quote]Damn straight. lol
English

Posting in language:

 

Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

  • Edited by Diplomat: 5/19/2013 4:45:40 AM
    [quote]That's a debatable statement. I've seen scholars say that towards the end of the Ottoman Empire is when Islam started getting radicalized in the modern times, I've also seen them argue it was Israel, and I've also seen that the Soviet War in Afghanistan/Islamic Revolution in Iran is/was the major reason (seen this the most, surprisingly).[/quote] You are correct, the end of the Ottoman Empire coincidently saw a rise in Salafi ideologies (for obvious reasons). However, it is in my opinion that the tipping point was the establishment of Israel, which created the basis of the demonization of the West by radicals and allowed for them to ascend into power. Of course, other Western moves further feed the radicalist movement, namely Operation Ajax. [quote]Are you saying that we should pander more to the G.C.C states rather than Israel or stop supporting Israel in general? Both would be terrible foreign policies and I think that you know that we have to find a happy medium with the Israel hatred spectrum. We have keep both sides happy. Just making sure what you're meaning, here.[/quote] No, I agree that we've found that loving medium. [quote]You're right about Ajax, sure, but for OIF, I'd argue that by that time, they were already pretty damn radicalized.[/quote] Prior to the 2004 parliamentary elections and 2005 presidential elections, the [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iranian_reform_movement#The_1997_presidential_election]Reformist[/url] party held the majority. The 2003 invasion of Iraq effectively ended the "age of reform" in Iran.

    Posting in language:

     

    Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

  • [quote]However, it is in my opinion that the tipping point was the establishment of Israel, which created the basis of the demonization of the West by radicals and allowed for them to ascend into power.[/quote]And it is my opinion that the Soviet War in Afghanistan gave way for a major threshold where Islamic radicalism flourished. During the war, thousands of mujahideen flocked to Afghan in their jihad; which, is arguably the turning point for modern jihadist ideologues. Thanks to the longevity of the war, Saudi and Pakistani (one could argue British and American, too, but I usually don't) foreign policies, and the defeat of the Soviet Empire thanks to some rag-tag band of militiamen, we have our current problem with radical Islam. I say the last part of the previous sentence because UBL [i]loved[/i] to attribute the fall of the Soviets to the mujahideen and, more importantly, his group during that war. I don't know. The cause for the rise in modern jihadism is probably going to be debated on for a long time.

    Posting in language:

     

    Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

  • [quote]And it is my opinion that the Soviet War in Afghanistan gave way for a major threshold where Islamic radicalism flourished. During the war, thousands of mujahideen flocked to Afghan in their jihad; which, is arguably the turning point for modern jihadist ideologues. Thanks to the longevity of the war, Saudi and Pakistani (one could argue British and American, too, but I usually don't) foreign policies, and the defeat of the Soviet Empire thanks to some rag-tag band of militiamen, we have our current problem with radical Islam. I say the last part of the previous sentence because UBL loved to attribute the fall of the Soviets to the mujahideen and, more importantly, his group during that war. I don't know. The cause for the rise in modern jihadism is probably going to be debated on for a long time.[/quote] Regardless of our disagreement on the origins of modern Islamic radicalism, you are an extremely well read individual on the subject. I agree, the exact details surrounding its ascendence will remain debated by scholars for years to come.

    Posting in language:

     

    Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

You are not allowed to view this content.
;
preload icon
preload icon
preload icon