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#Halo

11/12/2007 9:22:18 PM
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In depth explanation of the Halo 3 skill ranking system.

[b]I am NOT an employee of Bungie nor one of Microsoft, and my views and opinions do not necessarily reflect those of either of the aforementioned entities. Also, thanks for sticking this Bungie, I hope it is useful.[/b] There is one caveat to consider before we get under weigh. Bungie is not likely, nor or ever, to release the true inner workings of the Halo 3 ranking system, but as it is based somewhat on the Microsoft Trueskill system, this is a fair approximation of the way skill ranking works in Halo 3. [quote][i][b]What is the Trueskill system?[/b][/i][/quote] The Trueskill system is a player skill rating system for Xbox Live. Halo 3 uses a version of the Trueskill system in order to make the matches fairly even. [quote][i][b]How Does Trueskill Work?[/b][/i][/quote] Trueskill assigns skills on a normal distribution (bell curve, Gaussian). The Trueskill system has two main variables to consider. They are your player skill level ([b]Mu[/b]) and your uncertainty factor ([b]Sigma[/b]). [b]Mu[/b] is an approximation of your skill level based upon past performance. Win games to raise Mu, and lose games to lower Mu. [b]Sigma[/b] is the numerical representation of the range in which your [i]true[/i] skill could lie. Play really consistently, and you have a low Sigma. Play streakily, and you have a higher Sigma. After a win, the Trueskill system adjusts your skill ranking based upon the Mu and Sigma of all the players in the game. We'll go deeper into [i]how much[/i] it is adjusted later. Trueskill systems use a conservative ranking [b]Ranking = mu - (K * Sigma)[/b] so your skill is likely to be higher than the actual number represented in your Halo 3 highest skill level. K is a constant assigned an arbitrary value by the developers of the game. [quote][i][b]Why don't I level up after winning X games in a row? / Why does my friend go up three levels a game and I don't?[/b][/i][/quote] Mu increases after a win. Always. [b]The increase is proportional to the winner's Sigma and the Mu difference between the winner and the loser.[/b] So, if your Sigma is high, you will proceed faster through the ranking system (in BOTH directions). If your Sigma is low, you will both gain and lose rank more slowly. [quote][i][b]So, I want a high Sigma value?[/b][/i][/quote] While it sounds as though a high Sigma value is desirable, it CAN be a double edged sword. A high Sigma can mean you increase by one level for every win. It also means you decrease by one level for every loss. In addition, a high Sigma means that your skill ranking will be significantly lower than your actual skill owing to the conservative nature of the [b]Ranking = mu - (K * Sigma)[/b] ranking equation. Also, Sigma value starts out VERY high. So, if this is your friend's first time in a particular ranked hopper, and he wins consistently, his rank will rise meteorically due to his high Sigma. [quote][i][b]Myth Busting[/b][/i][/quote] Trueskill DOES NOT take into evaluation performances inside the game. The ONLY statistics that Trueskill takes from a game are the Mu and Sigma values of all the players, and how you placed. This means that out of all of these statistics: Getting the MVP Having a High K/D ratio Getting the most medals Skill levels of those you killed / killed you Weapons you used Headshots Captures, detonations, stops, ousts, etc. NONE of them matter when calculating the Mu increase/decrease. Any link between any of these and the skill ratings are purely correlative and not causative. For example. When I play Team Slayer with my buddies on my alternate gamertag, much of the time I end up carrying the team. I created this tag to play with my buddies, and as such, have only ever played on that party with that tag. I ranked up to the level of my friends within 20 or so games, while it had taken them 50 to 100 games to reach their level. My friends thought that it was because of my frequent MVP status and my high K/D ratio that I leveled up so fast. Wrong. I leveled up fast because [b]A)[/b] I initially had a very high Sigma, making my Mu more variable after each win, [b]B)[/b] Starting out at a 1 and playing people in the mid teens gave me a considerable boost every time I won, and [b]C)[/b] We won more frequently than they had in the past. [quote][i][b]Summation[/b][/i][/quote] If you're worried that you're not getting your fair shake in the ranking system, look at the last 50 games that you've played in that hopper. (If you haven't played 50 games, play more. The system needs more data.) Take your win/loss average. If it's 65% or above, and you've been in that playlist for a while, you've probably increased in level 2 or more times over the last 50 games (or you will in the next 20 or so). Otherwise you are going to be hovering around the same level or dropping in rank. [quote][i][b]Addendum, Opinion, and Technical Notes[/b][/i][/quote] In strict Trueskill systems, Sigma only decreases. I believe the "momentum" system in Halo 3 means that Sigma can be increased through consistent winning or losing. This is total conjecture, but I think that Sigma in Halo 3 matchmaking hoppers is proportional to the absolute value of the win/loss ratio of your last X number of games. The formula probably looks a little like: [b]Sigma = C ( | wins - losses | )[/b] where C is an arbitrary constant. This would explain why when some people go on a win streak with two or more different parties, their skill goes up faster than their teammates' skill. I also believe that the system is weighted so that the peak of the normal distribution is around level 20, not level 25. That means it will take more wins to level through 1-25 than it will 25-50. Which makes a bit of sense, if you don't want the highest levels too terribly crowded. [b]The higher the Sigma of your opponents, the less Mu you gain from beating them.[/b] Predictable outcomes (e.g. win against a lower ranked opponent) are treated as statistically less significant. Upsets are given more weight. So, winning against lower ranked opponents doesn't do much for your Mu rating. Neither does losing against higher ranked ones. But beat a team that's 6 or more ranks above you and at least someone on your team will rank up. Trueskill ratings have no discernable correlation from hopper to hopper. When you play on a hopper you've never played on before, you are starting with a fresh Mu and a high Sigma. Team Mu and Team Sigma are the summation of the Mu and Sigma values of all the players on the team. When calculating the skill of an opponent in a team game, the system uses the Team Mu and Team Sigma values in calculation wherever rational. *Removed equations for space. They can be found in the link below.* [url=http://research.microsoft.com/mlp/apg/Details.aspx#How_to_Update_Skills]The rest of the equations and a less Halo 3 centric analysis of the Trueskill system can be found here.[/url] _________________________________________________________ [b]Important additions, Appendices, and Member Questions Answered[/b] _________________________________________________________ [url=http://www.bungie.net/Forums/posts.aspx?postID=14457003]In-depth response to a post LoveNub made later in this thread. Should clear things up for some.[/url] [url=http://www.bungie.net/Forums/createpost.aspx?postID=14504550]More data analyzed, and a request for help with research[/url] [url=http://www.bungie.net/Forums/posts.aspx?postID=14451163&postRepeater1-p=4#14471689]Kudos to Jay120171 for finding the post detailing the Mixed Party Bug in matchmaking.[/url] [quote][i][b]"Why do I win 10 games and not level up, then delevel when I lose 2? Help!"[/b][/i][/quote] There are several possible explanations for this. The easiest one, and the one that fits the Trueskill system EXACTLY as explained by Microsoft, is that losing against a team that is X (I believe 6 or more, but experimentation is needed to determine the true value) skill points below you can cause you to lose as much as [b]5 times[/b] the Mu value that winning against even level teams gains you. Of course, winning against a team that has X [i]more[/i] skill levels than you can net you as much as 5 times the Mu gain. The reverse is true as well. Winning against a weak team can count as little as 1/5th of an even skill win. Second, and this is enlightened conjecture, your Sigma value was low at the beginning of your streak, and since your win streak is raising it, the conservative ranking system (Remember, Rank = Mu MINUS (K times Sigma)) is kicking in to reduce your apparent skill level. Your real Mu is higher, but your higher Sigma is having a negative impact. [quote][b]mo0vaf00 writes:[/b] (edited to clarify intent) So is there some kind of value that requires you to be inconsistent to rank up? If I win 1 game going even and win the next going +10 do I have more of a chance of ranking up than just winning 2 games getting the same score?[/quote] This conclusion is popping up fairly frequently. The answer is no. The system does not look at "In Match" statistics. At all. These stats are all included in a list above. The game only looks at your wins and your losses, and the strength of the opponents you play against. Also, the system does not "reward" you for having a high Sigma value. There is ONE positive associated with high Sigma, and there are TWO negatives. Positive: Your level can move up faster through winning. Negative: Your level can move down faster through losing. Negative: The conservative ranking system ranks you lower when your Sigma is higher. Higher Sigma simply means your level is more fluid. Sigma is good to have high when you are still reaching your appropriate skill level, but good to have low once you've reached it and are working on improving. [Edited on 11.24.2007 11:54 PM PST]
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#Halo #Halo3

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  • hay can u help me with recon thx andyjam1478

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  • ive been trying to get from a 35 to a 40 forever. i am trying to do it in lonewolves because thats how i got my 35 to begin with but. everytime i play i never rank up. i could play 5 games and win or atleast get second and not rank up. my exp is just 466 i think why can't i rank up? im currently a 30 in lonewolves because i actually ranked up today for the first time in like 7 months. and i went from a 35 to a 29 because i lost like 3 times. i wish sumone could help me.

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  • [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Insane Onza I'm sorry, I didn't read the 99 pages..but can you explain this to me? I made second accounts to play with my friends because one is already a 50. So We have played 46ish games and lost only 2. One at level 7 and one at level 11, and Now we have 44 EXP and we are level 12. Seriously, We have 33 steak dinners, and I find it stupid that the trueskill rank system cannot see that we are destroying people 50-4. Almost every game we win by a difference of 20+. I will link you to my secondary and you can see for yourself how frustrating TS system is.. Gt Machete is I, GT Maquina and GT Masacre are my friends. We have all played the same games and we cannot rank up, My friend has 8 Perfections and you can see he usually doesn't carry us because we can hold our own. In one game we went 30 and 0....Check the Matchmaking history. [url=http://www.bungie.net/stats/playerstatshalo3.aspx?player=GT%20Machete]GT Machete[/url][/quote] your not going up cause your playing with the same people.

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  • for all those who buyd halo 3 odst special edition including the halo reach beta . they released informations to the offical start 2010 [url=http://xboxteam.110mb.com/mine/]www.Xbox.com[/url]

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  • [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] x I VISiONs I x i think this ranking sistem is floored i was in a game and i go 25 kills (team swat) but my team wernt that good althouh there sill was high ther kd with like -7 so we still lost the game ant i lost skill i find this stupid... i think you should get exp for kills not wins[/quote] then play lone wolves

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  • i think this ranking sistem is floored i was in a game and i go 25 kills (team swat) but my team wernt that good althouh there sill was high ther kd with like -7 so we still lost the game ant i lost skill i find this stupid... i think you should get exp for kills not wins

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  • I'm sorry, I didn't read the 99 pages..but can you explain this to me? I made second accounts to play with my friends because one is already a 50. So We have played 46ish games and lost only 2. One at level 7 and one at level 11, and Now we have 44 EXP and we are level 12. Seriously, We have 33 steak dinners, and I find it stupid that the trueskill rank system cannot see that we are destroying people 50-4. Almost every game we win by a difference of 20+. I will link you to my secondary and you can see for yourself how frustrating TS system is.. Gt Machete is I, GT Maquina and GT Masacre are my friends. We have all played the same games and we cannot rank up, My friend has 8 Perfections and you can see he usually doesn't carry us because we can hold our own. In one game we went 30 and 0....Check the Matchmaking history. [url=http://www.bungie.net/stats/playerstatshalo3.aspx?player=GT%20Machete]GT Machete[/url] [Edited on 01.11.2010 4:08 PM PST]

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  • Has anyone experience leveling down from winning? My friend and I won over forty straight games and on more than one occasion a piece we leveled down from wins in addition to the fact that it took way longer to level up than usual when using a new account.

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  • [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] iiGotUrLagola [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Commview [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] iiGotUrLagola [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Burgandy yyyyyy just won 52 games in a row and leveled to a 15. lost 1 game due to foreign lag and rank down to a 1. played 15+ games as a lvl 15. w00t! http://www.bungie.net/stats/playerstatshalo3.aspx?player=Burgandy%20yyyyyy[/quote] [url=http://www.bungie.net/Stats/GameStatsHalo3.asptx?gameid=1493438690&player=iiGotUrLagola]Get rayped[/url][/quote] Broken Link Jimmy[/quote] It's fixed now.[/quote] you cant tell me to 'get rayped' when you had host on one of the worst maps in the game. f0cker. anyways back to teh topic. how is a person to rank up if going in with a partner greatly hinders this and randoms just suck so badly? [Edited on 01.06.2010 11:11 AM PST]

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  • [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] goldheartdown for all those who buyd halo 3 odst special edition including the halo reach beta . they released informations to the offical start 2010 [url=http://xboxteam.110mb.com/mine/]www.Xbox.com[/url][/quote] God dammit, will you stop spamming threads with fake links?

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  • for all those who buyd halo 3 odst special edition including the halo reach beta . they released informations to the offical start 2010 [url=http://xboxteam.110mb.com/mine/]www.Xbox.com[/url]

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  • cheers man, explains a fair bit.

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  • not bad! i like the ranking system in halo and i am trying to rank up again. lone wolves is the easiest way to get to a higher rank, but it is hard sometimes and you could get paired up with generals and other high ranks, which really gets on my nerves and they destroy me! but just keep trying.

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  • I understand the skill system but it's kind of annoying how long it takes to rank up just because you play with a team. I got my 46, then won 6 games on it. Then today I won another one, lost one, won one, lost one, then won another 5... and I'm still a 46! Won 13/lost 2. 7 win streak, then a 5 win streak.. and no rank up.

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  • very very imformative..I'll bump this up. Some people still may not know this

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  • Very informative well done.

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  • [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Commview [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] iiGotUrLagola [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Burgandy yyyyyy just won 52 games in a row and leveled to a 15. lost 1 game due to foreign lag and rank down to a 1. played 15+ games as a lvl 15. w00t! http://www.bungie.net/stats/playerstatshalo3.aspx?player=Burgandy%20yyyyyy[/quote] [url=http://www.bungie.net/Stats/GameStatsHalo3.asptx?gameid=1493438690&player=iiGotUrLagola]Get rayped[/url][/quote] Broken Link Jimmy[/quote] It's fixed now.

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  • [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] iiGotUrLagola [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Burgandy yyyyyy just won 52 games in a row and leveled to a 15. lost 1 game due to foreign lag and rank down to a 1. played 15+ games as a lvl 15. w00t! http://www.bungie.net/stats/playerstatshalo3.aspx?player=Burgandy%20yyyyyy[/quote] [url=http://www.bungie.net/Stats/GameStatsHalo3.asptx?gameid=1493438690&player=iiGotUrLagola]Get rayped[/url][/quote] Broken Link Jimmy

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  • [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Burgandy yyyyyy just won 52 games in a row and leveled to a 15. lost 1 game due to foreign lag and rank down to a 1. played 15+ games as a lvl 15. w00t! http://www.bungie.net/stats/playerstatshalo3.aspx?player=Burgandy%20yyyyyy[/quote] [url=http://www.bungie.net/Stats/GameStatsHalo3.aspx?gameid=1493438690&player=iiGotUrLagola]Get rayped.[/url] [Edited on 12.26.2009 5:23 AM PST]

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  • just won 52 games in a row and leveled to a 15. lost 1 game due to foreign lag and rank down to a 1. played 15+ games as a lvl 15. w00t! http://www.bungie.net/stats/playerstatshalo3.aspx?player=Burgandy%20yyyyyy

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  • for all those who buyd the halo 3 odst special edition including the halo reach beta . they released informations to the offical start 2010 [url=http://xboxteam.110mb.com/mine/]www.Xbox.com[/url]

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  • Good Job!

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  • wow, thanks a lot. I new very little when it came to ranking systems, so this cleared up a lot and i know a lot more about how i need to perform to get my skill up. thank you

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  • I can't figure out why my rank goes up, in that I get a message that I've been awarded a higher rank such as Captain Third grade, but when I play online (xbox live) it has me at Gunnery Srg? Also, sorry if I posted this in the wrong place, however I couldn't find a button to allow me to add new topic to the thread, only to reply. Thank you, The Aqua Teens

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  • [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Awesomesauce180 it says i am a recruit but i have played 100+ games, it keeps saying i need one more exp to be promoted so i play a game and win and nothing happens, also here it says i have 1- exp. how is this so and how can i fix this?[/quote] Try not quitting out of the games you play.

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  • Man I had the exact same problem, heres what I found out: In team playlists (everything but Lone Wolves) It takes the combined Sigma of your team and the other team each ADDED TOGETHER. But in Lone Wolves there is 6 different sets of Sigma and All that matters is your own, so basically if you win against a 50 you go up the same as against a level 2. You will notice a major speed up when you get to a 30+

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