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#Halo

11/12/2007 9:22:18 PM
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In depth explanation of the Halo 3 skill ranking system.

[b]I am NOT an employee of Bungie nor one of Microsoft, and my views and opinions do not necessarily reflect those of either of the aforementioned entities. Also, thanks for sticking this Bungie, I hope it is useful.[/b] There is one caveat to consider before we get under weigh. Bungie is not likely, nor or ever, to release the true inner workings of the Halo 3 ranking system, but as it is based somewhat on the Microsoft Trueskill system, this is a fair approximation of the way skill ranking works in Halo 3. [quote][i][b]What is the Trueskill system?[/b][/i][/quote] The Trueskill system is a player skill rating system for Xbox Live. Halo 3 uses a version of the Trueskill system in order to make the matches fairly even. [quote][i][b]How Does Trueskill Work?[/b][/i][/quote] Trueskill assigns skills on a normal distribution (bell curve, Gaussian). The Trueskill system has two main variables to consider. They are your player skill level ([b]Mu[/b]) and your uncertainty factor ([b]Sigma[/b]). [b]Mu[/b] is an approximation of your skill level based upon past performance. Win games to raise Mu, and lose games to lower Mu. [b]Sigma[/b] is the numerical representation of the range in which your [i]true[/i] skill could lie. Play really consistently, and you have a low Sigma. Play streakily, and you have a higher Sigma. After a win, the Trueskill system adjusts your skill ranking based upon the Mu and Sigma of all the players in the game. We'll go deeper into [i]how much[/i] it is adjusted later. Trueskill systems use a conservative ranking [b]Ranking = mu - (K * Sigma)[/b] so your skill is likely to be higher than the actual number represented in your Halo 3 highest skill level. K is a constant assigned an arbitrary value by the developers of the game. [quote][i][b]Why don't I level up after winning X games in a row? / Why does my friend go up three levels a game and I don't?[/b][/i][/quote] Mu increases after a win. Always. [b]The increase is proportional to the winner's Sigma and the Mu difference between the winner and the loser.[/b] So, if your Sigma is high, you will proceed faster through the ranking system (in BOTH directions). If your Sigma is low, you will both gain and lose rank more slowly. [quote][i][b]So, I want a high Sigma value?[/b][/i][/quote] While it sounds as though a high Sigma value is desirable, it CAN be a double edged sword. A high Sigma can mean you increase by one level for every win. It also means you decrease by one level for every loss. In addition, a high Sigma means that your skill ranking will be significantly lower than your actual skill owing to the conservative nature of the [b]Ranking = mu - (K * Sigma)[/b] ranking equation. Also, Sigma value starts out VERY high. So, if this is your friend's first time in a particular ranked hopper, and he wins consistently, his rank will rise meteorically due to his high Sigma. [quote][i][b]Myth Busting[/b][/i][/quote] Trueskill DOES NOT take into evaluation performances inside the game. The ONLY statistics that Trueskill takes from a game are the Mu and Sigma values of all the players, and how you placed. This means that out of all of these statistics: Getting the MVP Having a High K/D ratio Getting the most medals Skill levels of those you killed / killed you Weapons you used Headshots Captures, detonations, stops, ousts, etc. NONE of them matter when calculating the Mu increase/decrease. Any link between any of these and the skill ratings are purely correlative and not causative. For example. When I play Team Slayer with my buddies on my alternate gamertag, much of the time I end up carrying the team. I created this tag to play with my buddies, and as such, have only ever played on that party with that tag. I ranked up to the level of my friends within 20 or so games, while it had taken them 50 to 100 games to reach their level. My friends thought that it was because of my frequent MVP status and my high K/D ratio that I leveled up so fast. Wrong. I leveled up fast because [b]A)[/b] I initially had a very high Sigma, making my Mu more variable after each win, [b]B)[/b] Starting out at a 1 and playing people in the mid teens gave me a considerable boost every time I won, and [b]C)[/b] We won more frequently than they had in the past. [quote][i][b]Summation[/b][/i][/quote] If you're worried that you're not getting your fair shake in the ranking system, look at the last 50 games that you've played in that hopper. (If you haven't played 50 games, play more. The system needs more data.) Take your win/loss average. If it's 65% or above, and you've been in that playlist for a while, you've probably increased in level 2 or more times over the last 50 games (or you will in the next 20 or so). Otherwise you are going to be hovering around the same level or dropping in rank. [quote][i][b]Addendum, Opinion, and Technical Notes[/b][/i][/quote] In strict Trueskill systems, Sigma only decreases. I believe the "momentum" system in Halo 3 means that Sigma can be increased through consistent winning or losing. This is total conjecture, but I think that Sigma in Halo 3 matchmaking hoppers is proportional to the absolute value of the win/loss ratio of your last X number of games. The formula probably looks a little like: [b]Sigma = C ( | wins - losses | )[/b] where C is an arbitrary constant. This would explain why when some people go on a win streak with two or more different parties, their skill goes up faster than their teammates' skill. I also believe that the system is weighted so that the peak of the normal distribution is around level 20, not level 25. That means it will take more wins to level through 1-25 than it will 25-50. Which makes a bit of sense, if you don't want the highest levels too terribly crowded. [b]The higher the Sigma of your opponents, the less Mu you gain from beating them.[/b] Predictable outcomes (e.g. win against a lower ranked opponent) are treated as statistically less significant. Upsets are given more weight. So, winning against lower ranked opponents doesn't do much for your Mu rating. Neither does losing against higher ranked ones. But beat a team that's 6 or more ranks above you and at least someone on your team will rank up. Trueskill ratings have no discernable correlation from hopper to hopper. When you play on a hopper you've never played on before, you are starting with a fresh Mu and a high Sigma. Team Mu and Team Sigma are the summation of the Mu and Sigma values of all the players on the team. When calculating the skill of an opponent in a team game, the system uses the Team Mu and Team Sigma values in calculation wherever rational. *Removed equations for space. They can be found in the link below.* [url=http://research.microsoft.com/mlp/apg/Details.aspx#How_to_Update_Skills]The rest of the equations and a less Halo 3 centric analysis of the Trueskill system can be found here.[/url] _________________________________________________________ [b]Important additions, Appendices, and Member Questions Answered[/b] _________________________________________________________ [url=http://www.bungie.net/Forums/posts.aspx?postID=14457003]In-depth response to a post LoveNub made later in this thread. Should clear things up for some.[/url] [url=http://www.bungie.net/Forums/createpost.aspx?postID=14504550]More data analyzed, and a request for help with research[/url] [url=http://www.bungie.net/Forums/posts.aspx?postID=14451163&postRepeater1-p=4#14471689]Kudos to Jay120171 for finding the post detailing the Mixed Party Bug in matchmaking.[/url] [quote][i][b]"Why do I win 10 games and not level up, then delevel when I lose 2? Help!"[/b][/i][/quote] There are several possible explanations for this. The easiest one, and the one that fits the Trueskill system EXACTLY as explained by Microsoft, is that losing against a team that is X (I believe 6 or more, but experimentation is needed to determine the true value) skill points below you can cause you to lose as much as [b]5 times[/b] the Mu value that winning against even level teams gains you. Of course, winning against a team that has X [i]more[/i] skill levels than you can net you as much as 5 times the Mu gain. The reverse is true as well. Winning against a weak team can count as little as 1/5th of an even skill win. Second, and this is enlightened conjecture, your Sigma value was low at the beginning of your streak, and since your win streak is raising it, the conservative ranking system (Remember, Rank = Mu MINUS (K times Sigma)) is kicking in to reduce your apparent skill level. Your real Mu is higher, but your higher Sigma is having a negative impact. [quote][b]mo0vaf00 writes:[/b] (edited to clarify intent) So is there some kind of value that requires you to be inconsistent to rank up? If I win 1 game going even and win the next going +10 do I have more of a chance of ranking up than just winning 2 games getting the same score?[/quote] This conclusion is popping up fairly frequently. The answer is no. The system does not look at "In Match" statistics. At all. These stats are all included in a list above. The game only looks at your wins and your losses, and the strength of the opponents you play against. Also, the system does not "reward" you for having a high Sigma value. There is ONE positive associated with high Sigma, and there are TWO negatives. Positive: Your level can move up faster through winning. Negative: Your level can move down faster through losing. Negative: The conservative ranking system ranks you lower when your Sigma is higher. Higher Sigma simply means your level is more fluid. Sigma is good to have high when you are still reaching your appropriate skill level, but good to have low once you've reached it and are working on improving. [Edited on 11.24.2007 11:54 PM PST]
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#Halo #Halo3

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  • Instead of coming up with a ridiculous explanation for the ranking system; just realize that Halo 3's ranking system is broken. Halo 2 had the right idea. Consistent winning meant leveling up while consistent losing meant leveling down. That is really as simple as it should be. The level 50 on Halo 3 now encompasses like 20 levels from Halo 2, namely the skill range from 30-50. There is not a large enough distinction in skill between high ranked players in Halo 3 as there was in Halo 2. Bottom line-- the ranking system needs to be fixed!

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  • I don't think the ranks of the other players even matter, it's what their win/loss ratio is. Eg. In team doubles Your a 30 and have lost no games, your playing with a 30 who has also lost no games (both 100% chance of winning), you somehow are versing 2 50s, but their win/loss is 0.1 (10% chance of winning) so the system automatically predicts your going to win, and if you do win, you wont rank up or rank up that much. If you lose, you will probbaly rank down a fair bit.

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  • If only those idiots who quit at the end of the game would read this. Or those baffoons who think quitting will save their rank...

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  • Nice job man!

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  • I GET IT NOW YAY

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  • There is no connection between playlists.

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  • If someone was doing really bad in a playlist and they got last like 7 times in a row in rumble pit and then they go into team doubles and win one would there skill go up more then if they didn't lose those 7 games? I'm asking this question because timber pit is a different playlist and in socail and team doubles is in ranked would the who sigma thing still effect eachother?

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  • [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] nickcarsrrrr Clean organization, Straight forward communication, Reliable example(s) / Real life stories, Professionally put well done! If possible might I add, If you, [or the wonderful force that drops highly treasured intel ;)] could report a more in depth explanation of relevance for Variable K , The appreciation would be immfathomable to myself and the Halo 3 / [b]Bungie[/b], production "follower", community. -Great work. [/quote] Good luck with that considering the op (El Kafungus) is looooong gone lol. I'm not 100% sure but K may be your opponents level.

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  • Clean organization, Straight forward communication, Reliable example(s) / Real life stories, Professionally put well done! If possible might I add, If you, [or the wonderful force that drops highly treasured intel ;)] could report a more in depth explanation of relevance for Variable K , The appreciation would be immfathomable to myself and the Halo 3 / [b]Bungie[/b], production "follower", community. -Great work.

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  • sorry, I'm stupid [quote]Use the quote button dude, its to the left of the submit button.[/quote]

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  • [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] ForfeitDiablo So, basically if you play matchmaking every once in a while, thus increasing Sigma, you have a chance to earn more points, which is a little ironic, but if you lose battles instead of losing them, you'll decrease you points faster. If you play solidly, on the other hand, it will take longer to earn points, but it will also take longer to lose them, so in the end it depends on you; if your impatient you'll probably do the first thing I mentioned, if it's vice versa, well then vice versa.[/quote] What the, I have no idea what you are trying to point out or even if you are trying to point something out with that post. [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] ForfeitDiablo Yes and that person would probably be you, her0, also I hope you relize anybody who spells their name with numbers is a total noob. And if you hate bungie so much why are you a member of their website?[/quote] Use the quote button dude, its to the left of the submit button.

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  • Yes and that person would probably be you, her0, also I hope you relize anybody who spells their name with numbers is a total noob. And if you hate bungie so much why are you a member of their website?

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  • [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] GUINEAsaurisREX even if i have a perfection medal and I'm the MVP, as long as I happened to be on the losing team, [/quote] Impossible. Although I agree.

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  • Domenic, you do realize that by saying that it just shows off how bad you really are, and your first post also points out that you're not all that smart and that the only reason you even using the forum is because you get to become a member when you have a gold account, not because you want to use the forum for it's actual purpose which is to supply us with information and to give bungie feedback. P.S. oh yeah, please don't try to insult me because, trust me, it won'y work and you'll probably make yourself look like a bigger fool than I already made you look like.

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  • So, basically if you play matchmaking every once in a while, thus increasing Sigma, you have a chance to earn more points, which is a little ironic, but if you lose battles instead of winning them, you'll decrease your points faster. If you play solidly, on the other hand, it will take longer to earn points, but it will also take longer to lose them, so in the end it depends on you; if your impatient you'll probably do the first thing I mentioned, if it's vice versa, well then vice versa. [Edited on 06.15.2010 2:50 PM PDT]

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  • The more games you play in a certain playlists makes you level slower in that playlist (EXP has nothing at all to do with the skill levels, it is purely coincidental) And I don't know why it needs to be said over and over and over and OVER again but the levels of your opponents matters alot. When you are level 47-49, you are almost always going up against LOWER skill leveled opponents so trueskill expects you to win so when you do win, it doesn't mean much, if anything to trueskill. To rank up faster, beat opponents who have higher skill levels then you. p.s best way to get similar skilled players is to use the "close skill" function in preferences.

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  • I am doing very good almost getting 1st place all the time. so lets say I get a 48 how long till 49? then if I rnk up really slow why do people rank up fast. Is it because Im a brig grade III and lost too many times?

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  • High skill has no affect on the matchmaking system Femme.

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  • maby it depense if you bring a party and someone in that party is higher lvl or a[n] outrageous guess but maby bungie reconized your skill in multiplayer but that's a 7% chance could also be that ranking lvls or say some1 was a corpral grade 1 hacked/modded and got a 50 or some1 bought it and it was forged than I guess you would be group around your skill lvl and preferable players or grade.... [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Femme could this be why i keep getting matched up with skill ranges of 45-50 even though i'm a corporal with a skill of 10?[/quote]

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  • could this be why i keep getting matched up with skill ranges of 45-50 even though i'm a corporal with a skill of 10?

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  • -blam!- -blam!- -blam!- -blam!- -blam!- -blam!- -blam!- -blam!- -blam!- -blam!- -blam!- -blam!- -blam!- -blam!- -blam!- -blam!- -blam!- -blam!- -blam!- -blam!- -blam!- SUCK IT BUNGIE MAKE IT EASIER TO GET RECON BECAUSE ITS NOT THAT UNIQUE ANYMORE SO JUST HAND IT OUT TO PEOPLE WHO ACTUALLY ARE GOOOOD

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  • Maybe because your a -blam!-.

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  • Dude, seriously speak English I didn't understand anything about what you just said.

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  • [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Nephilim713 K The ranking system is -blam!- like really. Is it because I lost so much that I go down very eaisily? Like lets say I have my 47 back in LW. I win 5 in a row in 1st place. No 48 yet then I get 5th and 6th and I derank to 46. My SIGMA is very low it seems. Not taht I care because Reach is coming ![/quote] Sigh... The levels of your opponents have a large affect on the ranking system. When you are level 47 in a playlist, you RARELY go up against people who are a higher level then you so you do NOT rank up as fast. When you lose at level 47 you are losing to people with lower skill levels then you which ranks you down faster. [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] its me ur her0 NERDRAGE!!!!!![/quote] That sums that post up.

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  • THE RANKING SYSTEM IS -blam!- BROKEN!!! BUNGIE JUST NEEDS TO GIVE UP AND SELL THE RIGHTS TO A DEVELOPER THAT WILL NOT -blam!- THE HALO SERIES UP AS BAD AS THEY HAVE!! I HOPE SOMONE SNEAKS INTO EVERY WORKER AT BUNGIE'S HOUSES TONIGHT AND BRUTALLY RAPES AND KILLS THERE CHILDERIN AND LOVED ONES!!! -blam!- BUNGIE

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  • K The ranking system is -blam!- like really. Is it because I lost so much that I go down very eaisily? Like lets say I have my 47 back in LW. I win 5 in a row in 1st place. No 48 yet then I get 5th and 6th and I derank to 46. My SIGMA is very low it seems. Not taht I care because Reach is coming !

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