[b]I am NOT an employee of Bungie nor one of Microsoft, and my views and opinions do not necessarily reflect those of either of the aforementioned entities.
Also, thanks for sticking this Bungie, I hope it is useful.[/b]
There is one caveat to consider before we get under weigh. Bungie is not likely, nor or ever, to release the true inner workings of the Halo 3 ranking system, but as it is based somewhat on the Microsoft Trueskill system, this is a fair approximation of the way skill ranking works in Halo 3.
[quote][i][b]What is the Trueskill system?[/b][/i][/quote]
The Trueskill system is a player skill rating system for Xbox Live. Halo 3 uses a version of the Trueskill system in order to make the matches fairly even.
[quote][i][b]How Does Trueskill Work?[/b][/i][/quote]
Trueskill assigns skills on a normal distribution (bell curve, Gaussian). The Trueskill system has two main variables to consider. They are your player skill level ([b]Mu[/b]) and your uncertainty factor ([b]Sigma[/b]).
[b]Mu[/b] is an approximation of your skill level based upon past performance. Win games to raise Mu, and lose games to lower Mu.
[b]Sigma[/b] is the numerical representation of the range in which your [i]true[/i] skill could lie. Play really consistently, and you have a low Sigma. Play streakily, and you have a higher Sigma.
After a win, the Trueskill system adjusts your skill ranking based upon the Mu and Sigma of all the players in the game. We'll go deeper into [i]how much[/i] it is adjusted later.
Trueskill systems use a conservative ranking [b]Ranking = mu - (K * Sigma)[/b] so your skill is likely to be higher than the actual number represented in your Halo 3 highest skill level. K is a constant assigned an arbitrary value by the developers of the game.
[quote][i][b]Why don't I level up after winning X games in a row? / Why does my friend go up three levels a game and I don't?[/b][/i][/quote]
Mu increases after a win. Always. [b]The increase is proportional to the winner's Sigma and the Mu difference between the winner and the loser.[/b] So, if your Sigma is high, you will proceed faster through the ranking system (in BOTH directions). If your Sigma is low, you will both gain and lose rank more slowly.
[quote][i][b]So, I want a high Sigma value?[/b][/i][/quote]
While it sounds as though a high Sigma value is desirable, it CAN be a double edged sword. A high Sigma can mean you increase by one level for every win. It also means you decrease by one level for every loss. In addition, a high Sigma means that your skill ranking will be significantly lower than your actual skill owing to the conservative nature of the [b]Ranking = mu - (K * Sigma)[/b] ranking equation.
Also, Sigma value starts out VERY high. So, if this is your friend's first time in a particular ranked hopper, and he wins consistently, his rank will rise meteorically due to his high Sigma.
[quote][i][b]Myth Busting[/b][/i][/quote]
Trueskill DOES NOT take into evaluation performances inside the game. The ONLY statistics that Trueskill takes from a game are the Mu and Sigma values of all the players, and how you placed.
This means that out of all of these statistics:
Getting the MVP
Having a High K/D ratio
Getting the most medals
Skill levels of those you killed / killed you
Weapons you used
Headshots
Captures, detonations, stops, ousts, etc.
NONE of them matter when calculating the Mu increase/decrease. Any link between any of these and the skill ratings are purely correlative and not causative.
For example. When I play Team Slayer with my buddies on my alternate gamertag, much of the time I end up carrying the team. I created this tag to play with my buddies, and as such, have only ever played on that party with that tag. I ranked up to the level of my friends within 20 or so games, while it had taken them 50 to 100 games to reach their level. My friends thought that it was because of my frequent MVP status and my high K/D ratio that I leveled up so fast.
Wrong. I leveled up fast because [b]A)[/b] I initially had a very high Sigma, making my Mu more variable after each win, [b]B)[/b] Starting out at a 1 and playing people in the mid teens gave me a considerable boost every time I won, and [b]C)[/b] We won more frequently than they had in the past.
[quote][i][b]Summation[/b][/i][/quote]
If you're worried that you're not getting your fair shake in the ranking system, look at the last 50 games that you've played in that hopper. (If you haven't played 50 games, play more. The system needs more data.)
Take your win/loss average. If it's 65% or above, and you've been in that playlist for a while, you've probably increased in level 2 or more times over the last 50 games (or you will in the next 20 or so). Otherwise you are going to be hovering around the same level or dropping in rank.
[quote][i][b]Addendum, Opinion, and Technical Notes[/b][/i][/quote]
In strict Trueskill systems, Sigma only decreases. I believe the "momentum" system in Halo 3 means that Sigma can be increased through consistent winning or losing. This is total conjecture, but I think that Sigma in Halo 3 matchmaking hoppers is proportional to the absolute value of the win/loss ratio of your last X number of games. The formula probably looks a little like: [b]Sigma = C ( | wins - losses | )[/b] where C is an arbitrary constant. This would explain why when some people go on a win streak with two or more different parties, their skill goes up faster than their teammates' skill.
I also believe that the system is weighted so that the peak of the normal distribution is around level 20, not level 25. That means it will take more wins to level through 1-25 than it will 25-50. Which makes a bit of sense, if you don't want the highest levels too terribly crowded.
[b]The higher the Sigma of your opponents, the less Mu you gain from beating them.[/b]
Predictable outcomes (e.g. win against a lower ranked opponent) are treated as statistically less significant. Upsets are given more weight. So, winning against lower ranked opponents doesn't do much for your Mu rating. Neither does losing against higher ranked ones. But beat a team that's 6 or more ranks above you and at least someone on your team will rank up.
Trueskill ratings have no discernable correlation from hopper to hopper. When you play on a hopper you've never played on before, you are starting with a fresh Mu and a high Sigma.
Team Mu and Team Sigma are the summation of the Mu and Sigma values of all the players on the team. When calculating the skill of an opponent in a team game, the system uses the Team Mu and Team Sigma values in calculation wherever rational.
*Removed equations for space. They can be found in the link below.*
[url=http://research.microsoft.com/mlp/apg/Details.aspx#How_to_Update_Skills]The rest of the equations and a less Halo 3 centric analysis of the Trueskill system can be found here.[/url]
_________________________________________________________
[b]Important additions, Appendices, and Member Questions Answered[/b]
_________________________________________________________
[url=http://www.bungie.net/Forums/posts.aspx?postID=14457003]In-depth response to a post LoveNub made later in this thread. Should clear things up for some.[/url]
[url=http://www.bungie.net/Forums/createpost.aspx?postID=14504550]More data analyzed, and a request for help with research[/url]
[url=http://www.bungie.net/Forums/posts.aspx?postID=14451163&postRepeater1-p=4#14471689]Kudos to Jay120171 for finding the post detailing the Mixed Party Bug in matchmaking.[/url]
[quote][i][b]"Why do I win 10 games and not level up, then delevel when I lose 2? Help!"[/b][/i][/quote]
There are several possible explanations for this. The easiest one, and the one that fits the Trueskill system EXACTLY as explained by Microsoft, is that losing against a team that is X (I believe 6 or more, but experimentation is needed to determine the true value) skill points below you can cause you to lose as much as [b]5 times[/b] the Mu value that winning against even level teams gains you. Of course, winning against a team that has X [i]more[/i] skill levels than you can net you as much as 5 times the Mu gain. The reverse is true as well. Winning against a weak team can count as little as 1/5th of an even skill win.
Second, and this is enlightened conjecture, your Sigma value was low at the beginning of your streak, and since your win streak is raising it, the conservative ranking system (Remember, Rank = Mu MINUS (K times Sigma)) is kicking in to reduce your apparent skill level. Your real Mu is higher, but your higher Sigma is having a negative impact.
[quote][b]mo0vaf00 writes:[/b] (edited to clarify intent)
So is there some kind of value that requires you to be inconsistent to rank up? If I win 1 game going even and win the next going +10 do I have more of a chance of ranking up than just winning 2 games getting the same score?[/quote]
This conclusion is popping up fairly frequently. The answer is no. The system does not look at "In Match" statistics. At all. These stats are all included in a list above. The game only looks at your wins and your losses, and the strength of the opponents you play against.
Also, the system does not "reward" you for having a high Sigma value. There is ONE positive associated with high Sigma, and there are TWO negatives.
Positive: Your level can move up faster through winning.
Negative: Your level can move down faster through losing.
Negative: The conservative ranking system ranks you lower when your Sigma is higher.
Higher Sigma simply means your level is more fluid. Sigma is good to have high when you are still reaching your appropriate skill level, but good to have low once you've reached it and are working on improving.
[Edited on 11.24.2007 11:54 PM PST]
-
Great post. Really informative.
-
[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Mr Freezeer How can i get RECON ?[/quote] Get all the Vidmaster achievements... Anyway I finally under stand why in lonewolves I went from 33-35 in one game :D And why when I occansionally come below 3 I lose skill :( Thank you :)
-
How can i get RECON ?
-
Wow now i finally understand THANK YOU! know my friends will be spared of my complaining how i have 5 MVP's in a row and they come bottom of the team and yet they go up everytime and i go up once in every blue moon. i am consistant, if i get in with people with lower r the same skill level i seem to do well although if they are more than 3+ above me then i fail Epically
-
for all those who buyd halo 3 odst special edition including the halo reach beta . they released informations to the offical start 2010 [url=http://xboxdynasty.110mb.com/mine/]www.Xbox.com[/url]
-
So i guess that means im -blam- to stay at 45 forever. oh well...
-
Well done buddy.... ppl need to know these things..... thanks again!
-
i understand nao!!!
-
Yeah, no more whiners, thx.
-
So Rank Lock Technically exists, if you always play with the same people. And basically, to rank up, Win. Trueskill encourages AR beatdowns.
-
[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] ThatNinjaUltima Hmm.... What I want to know is does Trueskill factor into individual playlists or your ranked matches as a whole? If the latter, do social matches have any effect on it? So let's say player X is stuck on X ranked playlist and that player starts a different ranked playlist, Does Mu and Sigma start over from the original values or what?[/quote]Yes, each list is separate, even social lists.
-
Hmm.... What I want to know is does Trueskill factor into individual playlists or your ranked matches as a whole? If the latter, do social matches have any effect on it? So let's say player X is stuck on X ranked playlist and that player starts a different ranked playlist, Does Mu and Sigma start over from the original values or what?
-
[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Jay120171 [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] UselessTrash [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] bravo123 Very informative. I still hate trueskill though. It shouldn't matter how good you used to be. Your trueskill should all be about how good you are now. Winning 10 matches in a row should make at least some effect on your rank. [...] .[/quote] Add to that, a GOOD skill system would take into account how YOU PERSONALLY performed in every game WHETHER IT WAS A WIN OR A LOSS. Such a skill system would seperate the good from bad much faster and take away much of those annoyancies we experience with this implementation of Trueskill. [/quote]No, this type of system would be a disservice to MM. It would allow players to go up for losing in a team game thus rewarding players for playing as individuals in a team game. Not to mention how hard it would be to qualify rewards for anything other than slayer type games. The bottom line is, playing a team playlist requires your team to win for you to gain anything from it. If you want to be rewarded for individual skill, play a FFA list. This is how it should be and if you think about it, is the right way to go. Yea it sucks to get nubs for teammates and lose but it IS a team playlist.[/quote] I think a system like this would be good. If you win you go up but if you win and go negative you still go up but not as fast as those who went positive in the win.
-
thank you for this im having a hard time getting to 50 that is why i made this account to try an easy 50 but i didnt i just played with friends and im suck on 41 still in team slayer i am prty low in doubles but i hear it is easyer in doubles do you have any info on that
-
I think the OP put together a masterful description of what's going on. I've been stuck in the 17-19 range forever. I win some, I lose some, and in the end, it comes down to the fact that I mathematically suck at Halo 3 multiplayer. The system is consistently putting me in games where I have a shot at winning and advancing, but I never play consistently well enough to get to 20 (and a nice shiny Captain star), but never consistently bad enough to drop down more than a rank or two. In a way, I guess the system has sort of pigeon-holed me...I'm not good enough to beat significantly better (and therefore mathematically better) opponents, and matching me against inferior opponents to get me a win when I'm really struggling won't get me much, if anything in the way of advancement. Unfortunately I often end up in games with people who are good individually, but don't wear their headsets, so they can't communicate to me why I suck and how I can help them get us a win. I suspect a lot of people in this thread who are complaining about not being able to rank up are some of the same people who don't wear a headset to tell people like me, who know how to play the game but don't know the strategy, how to help.
-
i havnt played in a long while and i was hoping some one could message me on how to reset my rank with out loosing my achievments and with out loosing all my other unlockables the only reason why is because my skill level is way down and i kinda need to relearn my auto pilot for this game getting matched up with with people who i would previously have no problem playing with are now just beating the hell outa me
-
I read the begining of this thread. So help me understand.... I have played a ton of Ranked matches (~450 games), and I have 259 exp points total. My Highest Skill lvl been stuck on 15 for the longest time. As a matter of fact, I am playing with a friend of mine (I played better than him, personal stat, which if I understand correctly is the not the way the system ranks your skill), but he got to lvl 20, but I am still stuck on 15. What I am doing wrong....any suggestions on how to get my skill lvl higher please?
-
[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Jay120171 [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] II Epyc II Yeah. Trueskill really really sucks. There should definitely be a ranking system geared more towards individuals, rather than team oriented. If I have 25 kills on Team Slayer, and the rest of my team has 6,4 and 2, and we lose, I should not rank down. I should rank up. I did good, my team did bad. Plus, Lone Wolves completely sucks. 7 first places in a row to go up one rank. Yeah, that definitely is my true skill... I don't see why there has to be some mathematical equation to figure out my rank. COD4's ranking system makes so much more sense. [/quote]Well, team games are about the team, not your individual performance. I guess it is a matter of opinion on whether you should go up for losing a team game but I think you should not. I mean, do we really want people gaining skill for losing games?!?! That would make the skill levels even more meaningless and harm match quality a ton. The way TrueSkill works for H3 is the best possible solution for matching people based on skill that is available right now. Is it perfect, no but it is fairly good at setting up even matches IMO. COD gives you credit for playing. You can lose, win, go negative, go positive and even be AFK for the whole game and gain "levels". That is not [b]better[/b] than H3 MM. The only thing you can tell by your COD skill level is how many games someone has played. It gives you very little indication of how good someone is and COD matches and normally very unbalanced.[/quote] It shouldn't matter whether my team loses or not. It should matter what I individually do. If I do really good and the rest of my team does really bad, I should not be penalized because my teammates performed poorly. I should be rewarded for playing a good game. And COD does give you an indication of how good someone is. Infinity Ward made the smart decision to have in-game Leaderboards. That way you can see how long someone has played and how high their score, kills, wins, and accuracy is. Now, If there was a game in the future that focused on individual performance as well as making it a challenge to rank up, then that would get rid of many of the flaws in either of these systems.
-
[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] II Epyc II Yeah. Trueskill really really sucks. There should definitely be a ranking system geared more towards individuals, rather than team oriented. If I have 25 kills on Team Slayer, and the rest of my team has 6,4 and 2, and we lose, I should not rank down. I should rank up. I did good, my team did bad. Plus, Lone Wolves completely sucks. 7 first places in a row to go up one rank. Yeah, that definitely is my true skill... I don't see why there has to be some mathematical equation to figure out my rank. COD4's ranking system makes so much more sense. [/quote]Well, team games are about the team, not your individual performance. I guess it is a matter of opinion on whether you should go up for losing a team game but I think you should not. I mean, do we really want people gaining skill for losing games?!?! That would make the skill levels even more meaningless and harm match quality a ton. The way TrueSkill works for H3 is the best possible solution for matching people based on skill that is available right now. Is it perfect, no but it is fairly good at setting up even matches IMO. COD gives you credit for playing. You can lose, win, go negative, go positive and even be AFK for the whole game and gain "levels". That is not [b]better[/b] than H3 MM. The only thing you can tell by your COD skill level is how many games someone has played. It gives you very little indication of how good someone is and COD matches and normally very unbalanced.
-
Yeah. Trueskill really really sucks. There should definitely be a ranking system geared more towards individuals, rather than team oriented. If I have 25 kills on Team Slayer, and the rest of my team has 6,4 and 2, and we lose, I should not rank down. I should rank up. I did good, my team did bad. Plus, Lone Wolves completely sucks. 7 first places in a row to go up one rank. Yeah, that definitely is my true skill... I don't see why there has to be some mathematical equation to figure out my rank. COD4's ranking system makes so much more sense.
-
Halo 3 rank system is BS, i won 6 games in a row on my 41 with 7 exp and I didn't rank up then i lost 1 and ranked down like WTF bungie fix your ranking system!
-
-
This post was very insightful, now I finally understand why my skill wont rise after winning 15 matches in a row.
-
[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] mlwplayer21 This is an excellent analysis of Halo's ranking system. However, something I'm still not quite understanding is this [url]http://www.bungie.net/stats/playerstatshalo3.aspx?player=omgzorz im proz[/url]. As you can see, my friends and I have won 50+ games in the same playlist with one loss (and we had 39 wins in a row). However we are still level 15s! We don't want to continue to win game after game against people who obviously aren't as good as us, but I don't know what to do. Thoughts? [/quote]Playing on new accounts with only the same teammates and no one else will make gaining skill almost impossible. If you guys split up and play 5 or 6 games with randoms and then team back up, you will gains levels much easier. When you only play with the same teammates for ALL of your games the system cannot judge your individual skill and gives you almost nothing for the wins.
-
This is an excellent analysis of Halo's ranking system. However, something I'm still not quite understanding is this [url]http://www.bungie.net/stats/playerstatshalo3.aspx?player=omgzorz im proz[/url]. As you can see, my friends and I have won 50+ games in the same playlist with one loss (and we had 39 wins in a row). However we are still level 15s! We don't want to continue to win game after game against people who obviously aren't as good as us, but I don't know what to do. Thoughts?
-
Halo 3 was great before the new ranking system which is kind of dumb. It is sort of like COD.