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2/27/2013 12:16:42 AM
37
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Clearly you didn't read the rest of the thread.
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Oh, believe me, I did. Master Chief is my favorite fictional character out of the two, so I choose him.
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Against logic and facts? See, this is why John always got the most votes whenever a poll was involved.
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Edited by Froggert: 2/27/2013 12:48:33 AMLogic tells me that hyper-lethal big guy in supersuit with advanced weaponry would kill the shit out of some rich guy with some fancy toys and that doesn't kill people.
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I like your response the best out of the whole thread. OP says you win ^_^
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Something tells me the guy who dodged Superman, shot the embodiment of evil in the face, takes out guys tougher than John every week, and knows 127 forms of martial arts will kill the shit out of some guy wearing a trash can. See? I can play that game too.
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To me, superhero feats are just too ridiculous. Batman is a normal human being, yet he's able to defeat Superman? And all those other super villains and what not? All superheroes are insanely overpowered anyway. So arguing "facts and logic" with them is pointless. Especially since they defy logic.
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[quote]Especially since they defy logic.[/quote] Example?
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I just gave an example. Batman is a regular human being (with lots of training) but still just a human with absolutely no super powers and/or abilities. Yet he beats people/beings with incredible powers who are at near God levels. That, sir, is impossible for any human, regardless of how much training they have.
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That's illogical, but it's also incorrect. What you've laid out is: >Batman is a regular human being >Batman does not have super powers and/or abilities >It is impossible for regular human beings without super powers and/or abilities to defeat people/beings of or near "God levels" >Batman could not defeat people/beings of or near "God levels" And so if Batman does defeat people/beings of or near "God levels" (whatever that means), he is defying this logic, making him illogical. But of course, that's only if all your premises are correct/accepted. 1. Batman is not a regular human being as evidenced by the comics themselves. Simple enough. 2. Batman is not a regular human being based on your own argument. If Batman can defeat people/beings of or near "God levels", and it is impossible for regular human beings without super powers and/or abilities to defeat people/beings of or near "God levels", the only logical conclusion is that Batman is not a regular human being. 3. Batman [i]does[/i] have super powers/abilities, which within the logic of your argument would make it not impossible for him to defeat people/beings of or near "God levels", the only logical conclusion is that Batman is not a regular human being. So no, that's not a sound argument for Batman being illogical since it doesn't show Batman to defy logic.
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Batman is a normal human. Otherwise, please, enlighten me on what his superpowers are?
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Edited by U124926: 2/27/2013 1:36:27 AMGive me your definition of "normal human," to work with. So we're not miscommunicating.
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Edited by Illusive Mang: 2/27/2013 1:48:37 AM"Normal human" to me, is someone who doesn't have any superpowers, like say, Superman, The Flash, Spiderman, The Hulk, etc. And his intellegence doesn't count as a "superpower". So don't throw that in there.
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Then I'm going to need a definition for "superpower," too to be clear since it's pretty important I think.
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I just gave examples of those with superpowers.
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But not what a "super power," is to you. Because if I just go by your examples I have a feeling you're not going to like how it goes and will end up giving your definition of the term anyhow, so might as well skip all that and be on the same page from the start.
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A superpower, to me, is something that people cannot obtain through hard work or training. They are either born with it, or they obtain it through some type of accident/event. That's the best way I can define it.
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Well that's weird, but alright. So a normal human being is a human which doesn't have something (I'm assuming some ability) which they couldn't obtain through hard work or training and haven't obtained it through some type of accident event? I guess that's fair enough. So a normal human being can dodge bullets, bench press 1000+lbs, handle stress enough to make clones of themselves tear their eyes out, escape their own graves in a straight-jacket, and go toe-to-toe with Titans of the Earth. It seems like you've really done my work for me by making the argument I was going to make moot. Normal human beings are able to do incredible things, to the point that being a normal human being of your conception is really no hindrance at all. Your original point was that it is impossible for any human to defeat greater beings, but your definition of a human being makes no reason why that would be. There's no reason a human being cold not contend with the greater beings, as a human can do incredible things as well. You've refuted your own original point for me... So... Thanks man.
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Dodging bullets is not something normal people can do. And I get the feeling you think my definition of a "normal person" is just some average joe. I know Batman is not an average person, but he's still just a human, doing things even olympic athletes and people at their physical peaks can't do. Since Batman does things, and defeats beings that are far superior to him in every way possible, he therefor defies logic as we know it.
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But I already showed you why he doesn't defy logic. You're defying logic by saying he does. >It's impossible for something to defeat a being which is greater than it >It is impossible for a being to be defeated by something lesser than it >Batman defeats beings greater than himself >Beings greater than Batman are defeated by the lesser Batman If you accept all of these to be true they contradict one another, making it logically invalid. A logical conclusion can be drawn from the premises anyhow. If a being cannot be defeated by something lesser than itself, and a lesser being defeats that greater being, then it is logically necessary that the lesser being is the greater being. If Batman battles with a being greater than himself and defeats it, it is not the greater being, Batman is. That's actual logic, remaining unviolated by Batman.
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And the only reason Batman can even do any of those things is because he is the main character of his comics. Otherwise I'm sure he would never be able to beat Superman or any of the other God-like beings he's gone against.
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The only reason Master Chief can even do any of the things he does is because he is the main character of his series. Otherwise I'm sure he would never be able to beat the Didact or any of the armies he's gone against. Making statements like that are meaningless, once you start making meta-arguments you've entirely given up any sort of rational conversation on the subject and are abandoning the actual debate entirely.
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Well to be fair, I never actually made an argument for the Master Chief. I just said he's my favorite character of the two. So obviously I would choose him. Mainly because of the fact that "facts and logic" can't be used with fictional characters. Master Chief is no exception to this.
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[quote]"facts and logic" can't be used with fictional characters. [/quote]We always seem to do it just fine.
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Not really. I mean, if you're comparing two characters from the same universe, then yeah, it works. But comparing characters from different universes and then trying to put them in real world situations doesn't carry over well. Because each of those characters only survive their situations solely because they are the main characters in their own universes.
