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Edited by Wes:
4/20/2022 3:53:39 PM
65
CBMM doesn't work. Strict SBMM didn't work. How about we try something new?
Pure CBMM allows for outliers in matches, essentially making it a guarantee that lobby balancing fails. One really good player gets paired with all the worst players in a lobby, and now those 5 worst players are up against 6 players who are all better than them, and the top player drops 40 kills and still loses. How exactly is that good?
Strict SBMM created lag, and it created much harsher penalties for mistakes for higher skilled players without any additional incentive to play. It also made playing with a significantly lesser-skilled friend impossible, as your friend would be up against 6 players who were all better than them. It also forced the meta in higher skilled lobbies, removing variety and casual play in a looter shooter. This was not okay either.
We have tried the two extremes, pure CBMM and strict SBMM.
Why don't we try something in the middle? Such as:
1. Outlier protection: Top X% can't match bottom X%. Simple, but would protect new players for sure. Tricky part would be on when to decide someone joins the rest of the pool.
2. Team based matchmaking: Teams match teams of the same size and similar skill level. Lobby is then filled by solos that make the average skill of each team similar. Fairly straightforward, and arguably necessary no matter what.
3. [i]Loose[/i] SBMM: A player of skill level 5/10 (10 being the highest) can match anyone from a 4 to a 6, rather than only 5s. (Just an example with arbitrary numbers here. A scale of 1 to 10 is not sophisticated enough to properly rank player skill, so the takeaway from this is the idea and not the actual rank matching.)
4. Iterative Lobby Balancing: If a match is found and a significant outlier exists, the outlier is replaced with another player until the teams with similar skill can be made without outliers. This only works if combined with option 3, otherwise the top and bottom players would never find a match and queue times would be far too long.
5. A combination of the above. I'd personally like to see 2, 3, and 4 implemented. They'd have to be implemented so the search criteria could be adjusted on the fly server side though. Don't want stupid long queue times, but I'll take a longer queue if it means my team isn't completely outmatched.
We got options here. This idea that we just HAVE to have one of the extremes is ridiculous.
Let me know what you guys think and what other ideas you may have.
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Edited by Zinjo 2017: 7/29/2022 7:37:36 AMFinally someone presenting ideas instead of mindless commentary on a player's negative experience. I think a permanent Freelance option to PVP games would be appreciated. It gives solo players the option to avoid facing a stack of clan players and testing their skills against other individuals in either Crucible or Trials. It also gives new lights a place to develop the skills to compete with high level clan players in standard PVP matchups. Clans can expect to face other clans in Standard PVP and perhaps have a more satisfying match than simply pounding on a group of randomly matched players. Only the insecure need such match ups. Serious players want close, hard fought wins, worthy of the skills they've cultivated over time. Freelance has been done in Gambit and it appears to be popular enough to remain.
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5 RepliesI dont' know what you guys are talking about SBMM having bad lag?? CBMM has had the worst lag, bullet registration etc that I have ever experienced in the 4 years of playing D2. PVP was fun for anyone that wasn't a sweat because we were playing against similar skill opponents with SBMM. Now I get put in with guys that are 3.5 to 7.5 kd when I'm a 1.4. This is ridiculous and basically keeps me from enjoying playing pvp because I am cannon fodder. The problem with SBMM was sweats crying about having to play other sweats and that wasn't good for their ego's and streamer content. Bungie doesn't give a crap about the majority of casual players and caters to the few elite. Lately they haven't even done that with no new pvp maps. Bungie cares only about revenue not the quality of the product.
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1 ReplyForgive me for my vocabulary deficiencies, but what are SBMM and CBMM?
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At the end of d1, the sandbox was crap, but they had the matchmaking gold with the perfect mix of sbmm and cbmm. I cannot understand why this has never been implemented in d2.
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2 RepliesFinally, some superb ideas. CBMM makes solo queue feel like I have to move the world in order to win. SBMM means everyone is going for it at all times and that isn't fun in every playlist. Your ideas are great but they need to do a few more things too: Use better servers Revamp Comp mode so the effort required in SBMM is worth something Keep a few playlists as CBMM because this is not a balanced competitive game; every playlist being sweaty makes no sense. Or nerf bows (Le Monarque), fusions, linear fusions, and anything else that is cheap (zero or low risk but insane reward) and heck, this alone might be enough.
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1 ReplyI did something very rare for me and left a match during Iron Banner. Got dropped in against a full stack and could just tell it was way too far off. Postgame report shows it ended up 90-3. Average ELO on the winning team was 2129 vs. 1185 on the losing team. Top player on winning team was a top 0.1% crucible player with a 2818 (also a 2744 on that team) while the top player on the losing team was a 1486. (That player is the one who actually skewed the average higher on the losing team.) That is the definition of broken matchmaking. I try hard not to complain but that cannot be fun for either team. I can imagine some people just opting not to go into another match following a loss like that.
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5 RepliesEdited by Sohsuh: 4/20/2022 1:54:58 AMWhy don't they just balance the lobbies better than the garbage way they are doing it now? Call me crazy, but that is the most simple and easiest thing for them to do. The best player with 5 of the worst, is the dumbest thing I have ever heard of. They should change that into the snake draft that they tried for 1 week of Iron Banner, which was actually good. Why can we not try that again? Or... turn off lobby balancing altogether, so there isn't some algorithm that is making the games extremely unbalanced. CBMM isn't the issue. Lobby balancing is. You can't call CBMM a failure when the lobby balancing is what is causing all the issues.
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2 RepliesA casual arena shooter with the worst balance in the entire gaming world should not have ANY matchmaking restrictions and limitation period. Stop with your stupid SBMM suggestions. This game is completely dead pvp wise. Bungie abandoned pvp for 4 years now, the sandbox is horrible and there are no maps, loot and incentive to play it. Wonder why MM feels so bad with a tiny sweaty community left playing it. Maybe add content to make ppl play??? Weird thought i know. Adding any type of matchmaking restriction in this dead mess just splits player pools even more and makes the queue times worse, latency worse, makes games even sweatier (if that's possible) and just does not work in a dead pvp portion of a PVE looter shooter.
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This! This we like! This is what we want! Progress people!
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6 RepliesSBMM does not create lag! No match maker affects the internet that way. Why are you all stuck on this idiotic idea? The lag is due to Bungie's servers, that is why you still see lag and disconnects today. The lag at the time they implemented SBMM was not the fault of the MM. The only way to have a fair and balance MM is use SBMM. CBMM will always result in mismatches and games that are so far out of wack that you end with a mercy rule. Being a bad player like 0.2 kinda player; I like being on the losing side of a mercy rule, it makes the match go faster and I get the only thing I play for faster, the pinnacle. I can't learn to be better if every time I see a red player I am dead before I get a shot off. Until CBMM is removed I play only for the one reward that advances my gear.
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5 RepliesJust do what I do. If you get stomped by a team in trials, give them the ole block and report them for abuse. Blocking doesn't stop you from matching them again, trust me, its happened to me before. But after reporting them for abuse, I never match them again. Eventually, ill have everyone better than me blocked, and I'll only have the thumbless warriors. I call it blocked based matchmaking.
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2 RepliesSBMM did work, just took longer to find games and lets be honest the Tweet heard round the world confirmes why SBMM was trashed and it had nothing to do with the majority of players and everything to do with sweats not wanting to sweat
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Edited by Racket UK: 4/21/2022 2:25:01 PMHow about Group based say 5 Groups of kd below 1 , 1 to 2 , etc above 4. If every player was stored in there group on bungos server in a database it would be very quick to find the players, if you dropped below a certain kd or increased your kd you would move into a new group in the database so it wouldn't affect matchmaking time. The same goes for inventory it has to download from the servers everytime you go into your inventory if a database was stored on your machine it would read data from there it would be instant, it would only need to update when you made a change to your inventory etc.
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The nonsense we have now is terrible. It's literally 1 decent player vs another decent player with 5 typically below average players filled in. Whoevers randoms leave the spawn wins. Then the ability spamming 🙄 It's been enough for me to become a PvE main 🤣 I used to play nothing but PvP
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100% agree, the current matchmaking system is trash since witch queen dropped
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Option 2 would be great like the old halo 3 days. Option 1 would make the you tubers and streamers cry so that won’t happen
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Here's an easier way to fix match making. BELL CURVE match making: essential make 3 match making pools that place you based off your seasonal KDA. The 1st pool is for noobs and low skill players who have a KDA below 1.2. The 2nd pool is the general population, and the 3rd pool is for high skilled players that have a KDA of 1.8 or higher. This way you take the 2 extremes out of the equation. Next add a team balancing algorithm that ranks the 4 worst players in each game and splits then between the 2 teams. The game already does this with the 4 best players so why not the 4 worst.
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This is the best suggestion ive seen in the entirety of the "sbmm good plz bring back" vs "cbmm bad please delete" debate. We need more of this and less of anything that makes poor desync and connection stability problematic.
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7 RepliesWhat you u should do at your dojo is make a tournament like bloodsport where the winner gets 1 million dollars for winning.. But when you see how everyone entering are too good to beat demand another tournament.. but not allow good fighters and give out the same money.
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These are all great ideas, but the fact of the matter is that ANY kind of SBMM will introduce unbearable lag due to the awful servers they utilize.
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10 RepliesEdited by Shirtless_Captain_Kirk: 4/20/2022 12:25:47 PMNo matchmaking bs wizardry can solve the real problem: An 8 year old video game that's hemorrhaging players daily. D2 is just too old. D3 needed.
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2 RepliesI'm trying something else. I'm trying to never play PvP anymore.
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1 ReplyI hate crucible, so it doesn't matter to me. But, just a thought, why not institute a ladder? Increase your ranking to climb the ladder. Maybe have some crucible activities be independent of the ladder while others force you to play against others on your 'rung'. Some tryhards would throw matches to be able to keep their ladder ranking low but most sweats wouldn't be able to help themselves, they'd climb the ladder. Scrubs would play on the lowest 'rung' until they got better and improved. I don't see a downside, unless there really aren't enough people playing crucible to fill out the ranks.
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1 ReplyCan't say I ever experienced stupid long queue time with "strict SBMM" My queue went significantly worse with cbmm I don't believe bungie is capable of making a crucible everyone loves, I only know "strict SBMM" made less madness than "pure cbmm" let's stick with what worked better and call it a day
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No matchmaking is best matchmaking for Destiny PvP
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3 RepliesEdited by sillly: 4/20/2022 6:34:02 PMJust put all hunters in the same lobby and give titans and warlocks their own mixed lobby
