I don't know if you can use Cold Front as the sole example to say that [i]all[/i] SMGs are bad. Even then, Cold Front is only bad on Console/Controller.
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Edited by Veldrin: 12/31/2020 8:41:09 AMIt's bad on PC as well, if you compare it to Antiope, Ikelos, Seventh Seraph. They all have better range, better stability (when a SMG has 10*-16 stability, that's when it beings to matter on PC as well, since even on PC that's a bad stability value). Antiope outclasses Cold Front in every way (PVP) and I'd argue even for PVE it is better but that may just be bias. * if you want to come kind of close to antiope range you need to use a barrel that decreases the stability even more and you end up with only 10 stability making the cold front smg even worse, since you have so much horizontal(!) recoil it's not fun anymore (yes, even on PC). Meanwhile Antiope has 40+ overall stability AND 10+ more range (80-90 overal range or more) still, making it the overal more consistent and better choice.
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My Cold Front has 46 Stability and feels great. It has less range than my IKELOS but the difference I feel when I actually use it is negligible. It goes without saying that it's worse than Antiope. Antiope is the best SMG in the game as far as I'm concerned (although whether or not it's better in PvE is a moot point since Antiope was sunset with BL.)
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Edited by Veldrin: 12/31/2020 8:56:16 AMYes, but you give up a lot of range to get to 46 stability. That's just not worth it in my opinion. Friction Fire is a subpar Antiope, but I would think it's still better than Cold Front. And Ikelos and Seventh Seraph are great SMGs in the energy slot that easily outshine Coldfront. I have a Coldfront from last year with the godroll. But I didn't use it as much as my energy SMGs (PVE) or Antiope (for PVP) A bit of a shame since it's the only antiope-looking SMG you can get right now.
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Escape Velocity felt great for a while too. But now it’s just my Ikelos smg. It’s a 900 with recoil that feels like a 600 auto rifle and can have really good range
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But that's the main player base.
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Doesn't change my point that Cold Front is an outlier rather than the norm. I used SMGs a ton when I played on console with no issue. 600s and 750s (ex. Cold Front) are more or less fine. 900s could use a buff.
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"Bad" is subjective, but there's certainly a massive recoil discrepancy between console and pc.
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Sure, but the post isn't "SMGs are worse on console than they are on PC," it's "SMGs are bad on console," which I disagree with.
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He did state PvP. Just did a quick check (how accurate it is, who knows) but out of the most popular guns used in PvP, the first SMG on the list is the ikelos at number 36. Don't know if that's console, pc or a mixture of both. Seems most people swerve smgs in PvP.
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Low usage ≠ bad.
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Edited by fozzyball: 12/31/2020 6:25:14 AMEvery single type of weapon that uses primary ammo comes above the first SMG. Why's that? (Bar bows).
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Just because more people are using Le Monarque over IKELOS SMG doesn't mean that there's more people using Bows over SMGs wholesale. IKELOS places above every other Bow on the list. Using a list that counts each weapon individually instead of each weapon type as a whole is inherently flawed.
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According to destiny tracker, all smgs combined equates to around 0.8% of all kills in comp pvp. Why so low do you think?
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According to guardian.gg, SMGs account for about 1.3% of all Survival kills on console and about 1.5% on PC. That's still fairly low though so I'll answer the question. As someone who has used SMGs a ton (they're my third highest when it comes to PvP kill count under super kills and Hand Cannon Kills), I'd say the problem is Shotguns and special ammo in general. Shotguns are the king of CQC right now and special ammo is way too abundant IMO. SMGs and Sidearms had a way higher usage rate back in the double primary days because special weapons weren't a thing back then. Personally I feel like the solution is to nerf Shotguns (either directly or indirectly by nerfing special ammo) instead of buffing SMGs and Sidearms.
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Well you could do a lot of things but making them easier to control would be a start. Not necessarily a buff in ttk, just easier to use. I run a SMG a lot in pve purely for warmind cells. Other than that, I don't see the use in them. Once ikelos or seventh seraph SMG are retired, unless something changes, I'll probably stop using them. Basically a shorter ranged, harder to control, smaller mag, slower loading auto rifle. Sure certain perks can help with some of its drawbacks, (but not all at once) but for now, warmind cells are the only good reason to run one.
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Edited by fozzyball: 12/31/2020 6:27:31 AM[quote]Every single type of weapon that uses primary ammo comes above the first SMG. Why's that?[/quote]
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[quote][quote]Every single type of weapon that uses primary ammo comes above the first SMG. Why's that?[/quote] Almost forgot bows.[/quote] Oh no. On checking even Le Monargue gets in before an SMG.