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5/23/2020 3:08:29 AM
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Year 3 is slowly, methodically & purposely bringing the game back to Year 1. And Y1 is what drove players away

Think back to everything players hated about Y1: 2 Primary weapons. Static weapons without rolls. Useless armor with no stats. Incredibly SLOOOOOOOOOOOOOOW charging abilities. Toned down movement from D1. No loot to chase for. Stockpiles of Eververse shit. A slow TTK sandbox & crucible. Uninspired gameplay loop that basically had planet "bounties" as the rank up system. Sound familiar? Because everything about Year 3, and planned changes for Year 4 is sending us back to that. Just look at how Bungie accomplished this: 2 Primary Weapons = Champion system. So far in 3 seasons, we have exact 1 heavy weapon that can break champion protection (swords this season), which needs us to get up close. No shotguns, snipers, fusion rifles, grenade launchers, rockets or MGs have been given artifact mods to deal with champions. The most common gun in high end nightfalls is Eriana's Vow, and whatever primary you need for Overload or Unstoppable. And 2 of the 3 seasonal exotics that can break protection are primary guns. Static Weapons without random rolls = Putting key perks in the same slot. This week's TWaB stated what players already know: Damage & reload perks are the best options. Starting in Y3, majority of those perks were added to the same slot, which made the second choice some form of stability improvement. With the nerf to reload speed coming & damage decreases, we're going to find that once again, players are still going to look for the same TTK meta weapons & perks, and mods that help mitigate the nerfs. Thus, almost all weapons are STILL going to look the same even after sunsetting. Useless Armor with no stats = Armor 2.0 Affinity system. Sunsetting issue aside, we went through this at the start of the year, by limiting which perks are tied to certain affinity. Shotgun & hand cannons mods are not the same affinity. Sniper & SMG are not the same affinity, so loadouts are limited. Stats rolls are nice and differ from the Lightweight, Restorative armor we had in Y1..... but we're still stuck with locked loadout perks due to the Affinity system. Slow Charging Abilities = Nerfs to exotics with super energy. Skull, Orpheus Rigs, Phoenix Protocol, Doom Fang, Shards of Galanor....... all nerfed. All meant to keep us from having supers too often. Not to mention Armor 2.0 changed the wait times for supers in general. Longer wait times without high intellect builds have slowed our progress down for abilities. Toned down movement = Jump and movement nerfs. Titan skating, Warlock skating, Worldline Zero, sword flying, Hunter accelerated height jumps (and the absolute refusal to address FOV & Traction perk on consoles to match PC). We're not AS slow as Y1, but our GoFast update has been slowly reverted since it was launched. Piece by piece, our characters are getting slower Loot issues = Without random rolls in Y1, there was no point chasing static rolls. Better Devils was the same. Nameless Midnight was the same, and no matter how many times you got it, there was no point after the first one. With sunsetting on the horizon, what's the point of chasing loot now? With weak weapons being added, what gun is there to go after? Y3 removed pinnacle weapons, and the ritual weapons have been average overall (Randy's was great, the but the rest are nothing special). Strikes never got specific loot, Nightfall exclusives are still someone statically tied to Y1 rolls for older strikes, pinnacle & ritual weapons are gone................. and next season brings a limited engram pool. For a looter shooter, Bungie is allergic to loot. Eververse = Beating a dead horse. Do we really need to go over the issues with Eververse? The fact we can access Tess from orbit/our ship, but can't access our vault from space is all players need to know about Bungie's need to push sales. Slow TTK Sandbox = Y3 nerfs. Low level mooks were beefed up at the start of the year, while powerful guns were all toned down, nerfed or utterly and horrible destroyed (sorry Worldline). And the 1 gun that felt powerful for the season, was glitched! When the Wish Ender was actually killing things and felt powerful, that turned out to be a glitch. Now damage perks are being tuned, reload speeds are being tuned and we're heading back in direction from power. Hence, why there is little reason to believe Bungie is going to have great weapons in Y4. Finally gameplay loop = Bounties & the core playlists. Back in Y1, there was literally nothing to do and nothing to chase. You would land on a planet, have 3 odd tasks to get tokens..... to turn into a vendor to collect crap. There was literally almost nothing to do in the game for loot or challenges. Y3 has jokingly been a bounty simulator, except it's not a joke. There is NOTHING to play for and the seasonal events so far have more misses than hits. Vex Offense was boring after a few runs with crap loot, the invasion stuff was decent for a powerful drop, but otherwise crap. Seraph towers and bunkers are hot garbage and that leaves the Sundial and obelisk fractaline for god rolls as the only decent thing in Y3. Strikes are going on 1 full year with the SAME F#CKING MODIFIERS!!!!!! Gambit hasn't been touched since Forsaken, Gambit Prime is rage inducing and the crucible rolled out trials not even half baked! But hey, we get bounties? All these items, show the game is going backwards. Y1 was torn apart by players and lead to all the great changes in Forsaken. Yet since Forsaken launched, Bungie has slowly chipped away at every improvement and is driving the game back to the state it was in when players were absolutely pissed off. And they've purposely done this with each passing update, sandbox tuning, seasonal change & DLC. I don't know what they found so fascinating about season 1, but it was the low point of the game yet we're heading back in that direction.
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  • Edited by YosemitSam: 5/23/2020 2:06:10 PM
    [quote]Year 3 is slowly, methodically & purposely bringing the game back to Year 1. And Y1 is what drove players away[/quote] Need I remind anyone who the director is that lost 80% of the player base in year one? [quote][b]Destiny is a friends game.[/b][/quote] Edit: I think it's about time after 6 years of ignoring the player base that this company swallows their pried and pay a little more attention to the players, not their streamers that think they know whats best for us.

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  • Edited by Valriot: 5/25/2020 10:16:39 AM
    1. Champions mods are there to assume players have them on to begin with. If youre in a strike with 3 people, you should all have at least one. Not to mention, theres always been an ability mod each artifact to deal with them, this season had 2. Also, ill just one two punch the barrier one to death. EZ clap. And in any content where i cant, i have teammates. You dont need 2 primaries at all, this is about players not using 2 specials and adding more enemy variety. 2. The static rolls will be for the world loot pool. Aka the free content Why would Bungie use resources on that? Its patrol loot. It shouldnt be the best in any situation. If anything, this could potentially mean the removal of blue gear, since thats actually worthless, and now they have a massive purple pool. Not every legendary is equal anymore, and boy itll be even more distant in the DLC. 3. Anyone still saying Armour 2.0 is bad...is bad. Its just not. 4. Slow abilities is again, wrong. Most subclasses have synergies or exotics. But you can just slot grenade mods in now. Warmind cells can refund half my melee cooldown, making skullfort unnecessary, and allowing me to use whatever exotic i want. 5. The movement changes were specific to those, and caused problems. One class out of 3, shouldnt have that kind of mobility, and it would break future content. Titan skating gave Titans a completely outlandish advantage in PVP. 6. Loot issues isnt a complaint you have validity making, when youre complaining about sunsetting. "oh they stopped doing pinnicles"..yeah, i wonder why. Theyve already said they can go back to making those with sunsetting. Theyve already said they can put all the good loot in raids ect. 7. Eververse, youre the one beating the dead horse. We know. They know. Theyve said they know. Theyve said theyre changing it. Just wait ffs. 8.Slow TTK is just a flatout lie, and your example is just nothing. Oh no, Wishender isnt soloing a Primeval, they nerfed my guns again....yeah cos its PRIMARY WEAPON. TTK has remained consistent, the issue is nerfing or buffing health values to keep CERTAIN guns at the top, because they dont get sunset. 9. Gameplay loop is the ONLY thing ill agree on.....but you have no right to make that a complaint, when everything else, and sunsetting, and everything theyve said, exists to fix that problem. Theyre fixing bounties, theyre fixing weekly exp, theyre fixing loot drop sources, theyre giving higher tier content the higher tier weapons. Just sit down and wait, man. Take a break. Chill out for a season. Christ sake...

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  • [quote]2 Primary Weapons = Champion system.[/quote] You seem to forget the anti-champion ability mods such as Unstoppable Solar Melee. The majority of the time you'll only need to deal with 2 types of champions, and in higher level Ordeals or Nightmare Hunts you should be spreading your anti-champion tools across your team. Running double primaries is never necessary. [quote]Static Weapons without random rolls = Putting key perks in the same slot[/quote] If I'm being honest I have no idea wtf this means. Random rolls are only valid if they can drop with reload perks [i]and[/i] damage perks? Like... what? And somehow people were mad that none of the Seraph weapons can drop with those combos, while Bungie also dropped a ton of new enhanced reload mods for armour (not to mention that drop mag, and alloy mag also exist) [quote]Useless Armor with no stats = Armor 2.0 Affinity system. Sunsetting issue aside, we went through this at the start of the year, by limiting which perks are tied to certain affinity.[/quote] You can actually use the generic perks and the affinity perks in tandem. If you desperately want shotgun targeting [i]and[/i] hand cannon targeting then you can: get an arc helm, slap on shotgun targeting, slap on precision weapon targeting, good to go. You can't stack heavy ammo finder, with enhanced HC targeting, with and intellect mod like year 2, but year 2 also had a really obnoxious PvP meta that revolved around 5 super mod builds. [quote]Slow Charging Abilities = Nerfs to exotics with super energy. Skull, Orpheus Rigs, Phoenix Protocol, Doom Fang, Shards of Galanor....... all nerfed. All meant to keep us from having supers too often.[/quote] Supers still regen very fast. Keep in mind this is a CO-OP game, and one of the main co-op mechanics is generating orbs of light to reduced your allies super cooldown. If you want to spam supers: coordinate.

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  • Nothing about the functionality of year one drove me away it was the lack of content. In my opinion vanilla D2 had a solid foundation but it was poorly deployed. It's my opinion if that was released today with the current weapon system it would be a massive success

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  • So that it can slowly move the game back to Year 3. Manipulated 6 year content longevity. Power creep is a false narrative. It’s cheaper for them to take away our power and have to obtain it again than develop new content

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  • Edited by alphamachina: 5/23/2020 1:26:42 PM
    I haven't logged on since getting the shotgun, and I hadn't played much at all before that either. Worthy was horrible. Nobody wants to grind bounties non-stop for months on end, and it shows in the numbers. The game is at an all-time low and is losing players rapidly. https://steamcharts.com/app/1085660

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    • Edited by Demon XXVII: 5/24/2020 12:06:13 AM
      [quote][b]JLoco11[/b] I don't know what they found so fascinating about season 1, but it was the low point of the game yet we're heading back in that direction.[/quote] It’s not what ‘[i]they[/i]’ found fascinating It’s about what [b]HE[/b] wants [i]Destiny2: The Scarab Series[/i] And as for Season 1 being the low point ...you could argue the case that this [b]Worthy[/b] season (after 3 years of ‘changes’) is on equal footing....(at least the Season 1 PvE felt fresh in comparison)

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    • [quote]Toned down movement = Jump and movement nerfs. Titan skating, Warlock skating, Worldline Zero, sword flying, Hunter accelerated height jumps (and the absolute refusal to address FOV & Traction perk on consoles to match PC). We're not AS slow as Y1, but our GoFast update has been slowly reverted since it was launched. Piece by piece, our characters are getting slower[/quote] You know its idiotic statements like this that make me question why anyone is upvoting this thread. Why do you think consoles aren't getting FoV updates? Maybe you should play one of the games like Apex who has an FoV slider on the game. What does it say when you adjust it? "Warning, increasing the FoV may cause performance issues". DING DING DING! There is your answer. D2 is already having performance issues without and FoV slider and you want them to add one????? BROOOOOOOOOO, no one will be able to use the darn thing with your system crashing every 20 minutes or frames dropping even further.

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      • Wow TL/DR But the title is false. -Armor 2.0 is not being rolled back to Y1. -Random Rolls on weapons are NOT being rolled back to static rolls. Ever. -We have more raids -more variety in crucible And unlike in D2Y1, we have DLC’s, expansions, and seasons. Also we have yearly events and community events. More planets More lore More characters I’m out

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        • Yeah it feels like all the "feel more powerful" changes that happened between seasons 2-4 seem to just be being slowly undone.

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        • Based on this season Y1 has landed......... IMO just in a different form........

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        • Complete BS. Year 1 was better.

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          • Lol No. The TTK is slowly approaching D1 levels, and most Guns are there and just have more stringent accuracy requirements. Bungie went out of their way to say in the TWAB that they aren’t touching 600RPM auto TTK. The 2 primary section (your best example) has a very easy fix that we can draw bungie’s attention to. They already said that they are looking into the number of exotics that can use these. The second is simply adding seasonal mods for special and heavy weapons. We got our first this season with swords gaining disruption. - Shotguns - Unstoppable: ADS for a short time - Shotguns - Overload: Landing and entire spread - Fusions - Overload: Landing an entire burst - Snipers - Unstoppable: ADS for a short time - Fusions and Snipers - Anti-Barrier Eververse I agree needs to be toned down, and Bungie said that they aren’t putting anything in there that could be an activity reward. Armor Affinity has a decent solution in picking up the Affinity neutral broad weapon type mods. These don’t have any difference from the others except the cost and how many weapons it effects. The gameplay loop is slow this season. The lack of good guns and the low number of them makes there not be anything worth chasing this season. Seraph Towers was a flop. I’m pretty sure Bungie realized this after the community event flopping. Stats aren’t changing because of sun-setting and fixed rolls aren’t returning. Movement hasn’t been toned down since the “Move Fast” update. I wish that they would give it a little bit of a bump too, but the things you’re talking about only broke the game for certain players. Titan skating made titans overly valuable in pvp, and warlock skating with swords makes them way too good at speed runs. Bungie May need to take a pass at movement in general, but recent changes haven’t made any real impact outside of Titans having the same movement speed as the other classes, and warlocks still got the short end of the stick with their floating... Ability regen exotics didn’t exist in D1, and armor stats are significantly more powerful in D2 than D1. After tier 7, your cooldowns extend beyond what it was for the corresponding stat at tier 10 in D1. Ability regen exotics went way beyond that. I ran a build that abused the how broken Shards of Galanor were last year. I could get my super back every 15-20 seconds in PvE as long as I had enough enemies, and every minute in crucible as long as I could find my targets. These never should have been introduced into the game I the first place as they give you extreme power very quickly. I don’t mind exotics that give you ability energy, but super should never have been one of them. Bungie should honestly just change the perks entirely instead of needing them into the ground and us having useless exotics. Anyway, TL/DR: it’s not as bad as everyone says. It’s slow and a work in progress, but if you enjoy the game, play it. If you don’t, stop complaining. You can play more than 1 game. End Rant.

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            • Edited by Sheady: 5/24/2020 6:55:00 PM
              No, its not bringing us back to Y1, its bring us back to D1. No they just have ti fix the shit content that they produce

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            • Good post 👍

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            • Edited by PumaCheyenne: 5/23/2020 7:32:15 PM
              How about slowing down our movement speed and longer cool downs for supers while we're at it? I'm looking forward to that vanilla D2 crucible experience where everyone camped at opposite ends of the map and team shot each other. Good times.

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              • Yes. This has become obvious now. All systems are slowly being undercut and subverted to be functionally y1 level.

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              • The sad thing is - there is so much greatness in this game. But all actions taken appear to me to reduce enjoyment. And replace myself enjoying the game with just another layer of grind. Sad thing is also - I am a mature adult with the money to support Bungie. The 60-100 bucks for another DLC don't hurt me nor would some ornaments or other stuff from Eververse do. But I will think more than twice whether I will put a single more dollar into this game. My personal fun factor with this game has come to an all time low. And I really like it. At least - used to do. Anyway. That's life. Nothing lasts forever. Better a horrible end than endless horror. Take care and stay healthy!

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              • I agree some things need to be looked at. I did notice you said the TTK is slow atm though. It’s close to its fastest it’s ever been.

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              • Bungie's MO for Destiny 2 seems to be - Release a big and crazy ass Fall Expansion that fixes everything or a lot of things the players want. Then spend a year taking it away or screwing things up only to fix it all again with another Fall Expansion. Seems like the only thing they can do right is drop a beefy Fall Expansion that a majority of the players like.

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                • Not true.. loved the grind.. everything now is basically given to you..stop complaining

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                  • You mook!!! You're complaining because you can't burn through their content in matter of five seconds 🤣🤣🤣. You do realize without these "nerfs" there would be no balance? And yes I saw some little girl complain about most of the community defending this like 3 comments ago but you're nuts if you think that rest of the community would want to play some broken ass game with weapons and glitches and subclasses that melt everthing. That requires no skill in either PVP or PVE. That keeps moving on season after season. Good riddance to all of you complaining in the forums. Leave OUR game because you guys can't handle them taking away you crutch PVE and PVP weapons and cause you guys can't handle the fact that you actually have to play the game again instead of sitting there using the same crap you've been using since forsaken!!!!! If you guys are all gonna leave then do it!!! Nobody wants your unappreciative keister's here!!! Go leave!!! Nobody will miss you!!!

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                    • Y1 required skill Y3 doesn’t I don’t see what’s wrong here

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                      • You forgot about the exotic bow that can stagger unstoppables also in heavy

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                      • Oh boy... please spend some time in the forums because you’ll be mind blown at how many brainless zombies are in here defending this crap! “Nerfs” you say? No sir! It’s adding “diversity.” Things are not only fine but -blam!-in’ dandy for some, it seems. They’ll tell you all about the dangers of “power creep” and how the geniuses at Bungie are brilliantly keeping us safe from that dangerous beast.

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                        • I liked Y1. The game is not returning to Y1.

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