JavaScript is required to use Bungie.net

Destiny 2

Discuss all things Destiny 2.
1/14/2020 3:29:48 PM
18

Visions of Light; What is the Traveler trying to tell us? (open discussion)

So a recent post on the forums talking about the subclasses introduced in forsaken and whether they had any lore, reminded me of the Visions of Light mission that introduced them. This is the most recent example of the Traveler speaking to us directly (which could imply we are a speaker, but thats a topic onto itself). What I want to talk about today is what the Traveler is trying to tell us? [spoiler]a lot of the theorising put into this came from the discord server made for the #lore forums https://discord.gg/P9Q6uQG [/spoiler] Now first we need a little context about how the Traveler speaks to individuals (this solely applies to the Speakers, but we're going to make an exception and apply it to us). According to the Constellations book, entry "Growing" [quote]The Traveler does not speak to me in words, but in dreams. Dream language is cramped. The messages come from the Traveler, disintegrate on the way to me, and reform into something else. I am an interpreter more than a Speaker.[/quote] The Traveler says something different to what is heard by it's speaker/listener. So this is why i want to suggest that the Traveler is trying to tell us something; but what we hear is vastly different to what it says. So, in the Visions of Light mission; the Traveler speaks to us and our ghost, and nobody else. Ikora explicitly states that [quote]Whatever you saw was for you and you alone. The Traveler is speaking to you.[/quote] and given our experiences with the Traveler, specifically when it showed us a vision of the Shard, the weapons of time's past and the eventual arrival of Calus; I would like to argue the Traveler is trying to tell us or more appropriately, warn us about future events (from the point of Forsaken, onwards). In order to theorise what the Traveler says, we need to know what it was we heard: [quote]Devotion inspires bravery. Bravery inspires sacrifice. Sacrifice… leads to death. The Garden grows in both directions. It grows into tomorrow and yesterday. The red flowers bloom forever. You might have been kings and queens of the Deep! But you have toppled Oryx, and you have not replaced him! Humanity must have protectors… Will you stand with me? … Even the stars are brighter now… the whole cosmos is ablaze… The Light lives in all places, in all things. You can block it, even try to trap it. But the Light will find its way. And the Traveler will defend itself.[/quote] The Traveler quotes 6 pieces of the past: - The speaker during the "Fury" mission cutscene - Pujari in the Legend: The Black Garden grimoire card - Toland in the King's Fall grimoire card - Lord Radegast in the Lord Radegast grimoire card - An anonymous ally of Efrideet in the Cosmos Shell lore tab - The speaker once again during the "Combustion" mission cutscene Five different characters of the lore, all affiliated with the Light in some way, but all about different things. I want to argue that each of these quotations said to us by the Traveler, are taken out of context and applied to a new one. But what do they now mean? Well, each one of these is meant to foretell us of events that are to happen post forsaken and are the following warnings/premonitions: "The Garden grows in both directions. It grows into tomorrow and yesterday. The red flowers bloom forever." I believe this event is meant to tell us about the Sundial incident. The Garden is a reference to Mercury, Time being pushed out from both it's past and future is shown in the mention of "today and yesterday" and the mention of red flowers is a metaphor for the legion. (I should mention; this could be a reference to the Black Garden and the Undying Mind, but i do believe that this more fits the Sundial incident) "Devotion inspires bravery. Bravery inspires sacrifice. Sacrifice… leads to death." I believe this is about Uldren Sov and his revival into a Lightbarer, as he does technically fit that criteria (devoted to a cause of bringing Mara back, showing Bravery by taking on everything against him, Sacrificing it all in those final moments which leads to his death). " You might have been kings and queens of the Deep! But you have toppled Oryx, and you have not replaced him!" This one can mean one of two things: 1) the obvious reference to the remaining Osmium heirs and the threat they pose, given the likelihood that Savathun has taken Oryx's mantle. 2) possibly referring to the ARG and his potential revival by the Hidden Swarm (unlikely of the two, and in general; I cannot see Oryx returning). So that leave us with the last three: I do believe this are to hint at future events that could potentially happen, so this is where we tighten the spinfoil hats. "… Even the stars are brighter now… the whole cosmos is ablaze…" the original context for this quote was one of hope and one that talked about how the Light returned after it was caged. However I believe this is to be flipped; This is a literal cosmos on fire. The fires of war. Whether this is a direct result of The oncoming Maelstrom being brought to the system by "our Salvation"; or by the Hive embodiment of War; or by a possible rekindling of the Almighty (given the stars being brighter, and the Almighty being directly linked with Sol), is up for debate, but i do believe this has had it's original context flipped and is now a message of fear over a message of hope. "The Light lives in all places, in all things. You can block it, even try to trap it. But the Light will find its way. And the Traveler will defend itself." This one is tricky. It could be a reference to Saint-14 and how he had his Light restored in Corridors of Time pt2, and found his way back to the city. It could be a look at the endgame of the story of the Winnower and the Gardener and how this is a promise that the Traveler will once more take a stand and protect itself. Or it could potentially be a metaphorical statement about the Luna incident of Shadowkeep. But honestly, this one has me stumped. "Humanity must have protectors… Will you stand with me?" Now this one is rather interesting. The quote isn't fully complete. This quote doesn't include the "Like the knights of old." sentence in between the "protectors" and "will". That means this is applying to current times. The Iron Lords are long gone; and were very similar to "the knights of old". This makes me believe this is to be placed in a present context. And given the reemergence of Saint-14, I believe this is not just a foretelling of what's to come, but an actual question. Will we stand with the Traveler when the time comes? and will Humanity have protectors that will stand with us? Saint-14? Osiris? the roadmap talks about the Empyrean Foundation which instantly makes me think of the Sunbreakers, so will we gather them to help protect humanity? I think this is the Traveler stating that we will gather a new generation of protectors, and then asking us to stand with it when the night comes. So now i ask you; what do you think the visions mean? After all, these are just interpretations.

Posting in language:

 

Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

  • Edited by Necrogen: 1/16/2020 2:03:14 AM
    We will die the end (or at a cliffhanger bridging D2 to d3 I dunno) Saint-14 has been datamined to be saying a eulogy and the wording definitely pertains to us. Also if you've done the new sundial mission, you'll see our coffin. In terms of what the traveler says? I don't think it's too cryptic. We know of the flower game now, we know the traveler is alive and we know it wants us to stand up and fight alongside it.

    Posting in language:

     

    Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

    4 Replies
    • I think it wants me to shoot aliens in the face.

      Posting in language:

       

      Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

    • It wants us to burn down the Eververse.

      Posting in language:

       

      Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

    • Nothing. There's no story here, you're reading way too far into this fanfic level of writing. It's been years and all they've done is make more questions with next to 0 answers. Comically bad writing. Most of it retconned by the gameplay being nonsensicle and failing to build a believable world.

      Posting in language:

       

      Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

    • “Be sure to drink your Ovaltine”....

      Posting in language:

       

      Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

    • Edited by roadrage424: 1/15/2020 4:44:30 PM
      ANSWER: "Burn more time farming 9 more sets of armor, Gaurdian!" MY ANSWER: "My Y2 stuff is working just fine. Glad I saved it!!" BungLe ANSWER: "That will be another ban and a deleted comment for Roadrage424."

      Posting in language:

       

      Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

    • 1
      AwesomestZ
      AwesomestZ

      my will is not my own - old

      we potentially die in the future with the sword on our grave. maybe something to do with the speaker quote but it’s really far fetched

      Posting in language:

       

      Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

    • Why is it we can fly thru our solar system, but we can’t fly up and investigate what is inside the traveler ever since it broke apart? This has really bugged me.😆

      Posting in language:

       

      Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

    • The real question is, wtf is the traveler? How is it alive? Is there something inside that big ball? These are things I always wanted to know

      Posting in language:

       

      Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

      14 Replies
      • 1) Doesn't the speaker say self-sacrifice? However, within the context of the speaker explaining to Ghaul, he states "inspires" after every moral choice, but says "leads" when finishing with death. Devotion inspires Bravery. Bravery inspires sacrifice. Sacrifice however results in death. Death is the outcome, the end goal. The Traveler needs death. The Traveler only awakened after the death of a truly "powerful" Light wielder. Even though it was stolen, he was able to self rez without assistance. Ghost are supposed to stitch you back together, but he didn't have that, yet self rezzed anyway. Guardians are vessels to increase their Light, thought the amount of death they collect. Upon death, their Light goes back to the Traveler. The amount of death Ghaul has brought is likely astronomical. --- 2) I dont think this is about the Sundial specifically, but the whole concept of Worldline stepping in general. The concept goes beyond that with our own reality, being our failed attempts equaling collapsed timelines. The timeline Destiny only focuses on is the one where we are alive, and we win. Whether it be the stories of the campaign or Raids. The architect of our victories is the Sword and the Hourglass, like Orin talked about. Hourglass being The Stranger, the one who started this whole thing. The one that pops in and out of reality like how we did with Saint-14 on a much smaller scale. The Sword being Savathûn. The one who had sent us challenge after challenge, presenting us with the necessary tools to fight back beyond what we already knew. Simultaneously, making her stronger as a result. We are her strength and accomplishments after all. --- 3) I think it was wise for us to not occupy the throne. Toland may think otherwise, be he sacrificed his fireteam to transend death so who knows what of his sinister designs. I know Savathun doesn't occupy the Throne, or else she'd be cursed like Oryx. Savathun has unmatched brilliance goes so far as to improvising a perfect wish on Riven. Something the Awoken need a Wish Wall for, to close the gap between words. Quira currently holds that position by proxy. --- Gonna have to think about the last 3. Final one might just be the Traveler's eventual departure.

        Posting in language:

         

        Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

        2 Replies
        • That mission felt....wrong. It didn't feel right.....

          Posting in language:

           

          Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

          2 Replies
          • The quote about the garden could also be talking about the game the gardener and the winnower play as it states the game is played on an infinite grid of flowers.

            Posting in language:

             

            Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

          • The mention of stars being brighter could refer to us going to other systems Back in d1, looking at your location I’m orbit, they did take the time to mention we are in the solar system, I think they may have mentioned the milky way, not sure.

            Posting in language:

             

            Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

          • Wait.... Are WE the next speaker?!?!

            Posting in language:

             

            Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

            9 Replies
            • Listen to the Traveler!

              Posting in language:

               

              Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

            • I agree with you on the whole "applying new context to these quotes" At the moment it feels like the traveler communicates by using other people's words to get it's point across, just like you said

              Posting in language:

               

              Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

            • 1
              GiantSlayer
              GiantSlayer

              Known as “Homeschool” to a few - old

              Bump Also, what do you mean by ARG?

              Posting in language:

               

              Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

              1 Reply
              • [quote]and given our experiences with the Traveler, specifically when it showed us a vision of the Shard, the weapons of time's past and the eventual arrival of Calus; I would like to argue the Traveler is trying to tell us or more appropriately, warn us about future events (from the point of Forsaken, onwards).[/quote] I guess, the traveler is able to see the future and tries to tell us what we have to do without telling us everything. It could be like this "Avengers: Endgame - If I tell you it won't happen"-meme. He has to show us the future vague so we do react by nature and not by knowledge. If we would know how things would turn out, we would (if the chaos theory is a thing in the destiny universe) change then the timeline by accident causing new events which could lead to a win for the darkness (or whatever the traveller and the gardener want to prevent).

                Posting in language:

                 

                Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

              You are not allowed to view this content.
              ;
              preload icon
              preload icon
              preload icon