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Destiny 2

Discuss all things Destiny 2.
12/2/2019 9:53:24 AM
77

Destiny 2 Has An End Game Problem, Seasons Won't Fix It

The writing is on the wall for me that Destiny 2 has a end game issue. Now, yes there are many different types of end game activities that Destiny 2 will pout but the relevant ones that people will likely participate in once you hit 950 are limited. 1) Master Nightfalls This is probably the best content because it has incentive to keep playing and grinding for rewards of materials and high chances at exotics, but the argument can always be made they can be made better with updates to nightfalls with no exclusive weapons get some added to them to farm for or nightfall exclusive loot pool weapons. 2) The Raid I think GoS is fairly weak. A few weapons are passable but require top tier rolls to make them viable use in PvE which makes them unlikely to be cared about when many existing players had time to already own god rolled weapons. The armor has the potential for high stat rolls but they are both inconsistant, as well as give only very minor, almost unnoticable changes in gameplay when compared to other lower stat rolled armor. The encounters up until the final boss are also incredibly weak in design leading to teams speed running to the final boss in sub 20 minutes with no trouble even with newer players. 3) Master Nightmare Hunts Why do these exist? That's the question I asked myself as I did one of these. The only rewards for them are more eris items that no one cares about because you don't need to farm these hunts to get a crap ton of the materials to make the weapons you want from other easier activities. The only reward is the one time pinnacle per character per week and mods that just make doing that specific activity easier while no exclusive weapon rewards. Litteraly pointless content. 4) Dungeon The dungeon is great content that again, feels almost pointless. The fact that it relies on the eris gear instead of its own unique lootpool killed its longevity even with 1 exclusive item tied to it. 1 pinnacle masterwork isn't enough of an incentive when the Master Nightfalls exist. 2/4 of the end game pinnacle activities are incredibly weak either from a rewards or a design standpoint for keeping players interested for any length of time. Only one activity available in the end game has lasting significance but that might be fleeting as time goes on. We need a focused end game that has long lasting content to keep players engaged. Seasonal activities so far prove to me they aren't made for the end game but instead just a distraction activity for us to enjoy for maybe a week before ignoring it again. We need a focused team that will give us players on the side with the season pass a new activity or updates to the existing end game content that they need to keep the end game healthy. NO power cap increases is not the answer, there needs to be actual long lasting incentive and a decent challenge in those activities to keep players interested in coming back.

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  • 11
    Thanks for the feedback. In terms of the Dungeon and Master Nightmare Hunts, what other rewards would you like to see from these activities? While they do not offer specific items, would the chase for higher stats or masterwork materials help in adding value?

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    • Psh... there is no endgame in Destiny. Not sure why these live-service, mmorpg wannabe games can’t figure this stuff out. 1. Level up to get stronger 2. Collect loot to get strong 3. Use loot to create ultimate killing machine builds 4. Have something to do to test out builds 5. Have ultimate challenges where only the best builds will succeed. This isn’t rocket science. But, here’s Bungie’s model: 1. Start at 750 for no good reason and level up even though it never makes you stronger 2. Get a bunch of generic loot thrown at you in generic ways 3. Play the most difficult activities to collect things that are needed to create builds 4. Create builds and realize there’s nothing to do with them 5. Buy stuff from Eververse

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      • Would like end game for us solo players as well please.

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        • As far as gameplay is concerned, I still believe Destiny 1 was better. It wasnt overly managed like D2 has been.

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        • I might be in a major minority here but I find the Master Nightfalls just as meaningless as regular nightfalls. While you can get exotics and ascendent shards there is a two fold problem. If you’ve played for a long time you likely have all exotics already. Since the exotic loot pool is so large the idea of chasing alignment roles for exotic pieces of armor is moot. Ascendent shards are crucial to masterworking armor but at the +2 increases on a bulk of the armor in the game isn’t changing your cooldowns bu much. How often are you getting armor with high enough stat rolls where the +2 is increasing the tier level since it works on a system of 10. You can equip more mods but their effectiveness is negligible overall to actual game play. Two mods seems about all you need on any piece of armor to be more than effective in any activity. If armor pieces came with a point pool where you invested the points into the stats of your choosing and each level towards masterworking gave you more points to plug in then we’d see a need to masterwork. Right now the only real relevantly important thing to be had from Master Nightfalls is the ship for the Undying title but after that it’s just a dead activity.

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        • End Game Problem you say? D2 has devolved from an incredibly lacklustre sequel to little more than a FOMO dress sim now. End game is about EV. I thought Bungie, and their actions, couldn't be more clear on that.

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          • I did Nightfall 980 solo, got 1 blue and 1 trash legendary with higher Power Level that is all, great rewards Bungo.

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          • All Raids should count as Pinnacle. Also can Can PvP guys get some love. Pinnacle for Valor resets.

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            • I don't really care about what you people call endgame. I care about QoL in the main game. The idea of constantly playing in a fireteam (especially of 6) bores me to death. Sometimes I'll do a 3 man activity like a dungeon or exotic quest, but raid? Yeah, you can F right off with that mess. IB is cool because I can do my own thing there. The Menagerie was cool. Vex Offensive was straight up trash.

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              • As part of endgame loot, we should get getting Ever verse items in addition to weapons, armor, strike-specific loot, etc.

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              • I played Halo mp for over a decade. The mp maps were always great and there were a ton of them. I'd be happy with a bunch more crucible maps. I've really enjoyed the dungeon, nightmare hunts and master nightfalls. Haven't spent very much time in the raid but what I've done so far has been enjoyable. I guess what I'm saying is I play for fun not rewards.

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              • To be honest this problem has been in the game since the start and no amount of new content or power level will change that. They need to bring back a meaning to power level. I want to feel powerful and at the moment it’s irrelevant if I’m max light or a low light, yes I’m well aware there is a penalty for being under light but there is absolutely no reward for being over it. Why the hell do we want to chase a number next to your name when it makes no difference to how the game plays. It’s only an entrance number to get into a raid or whatever it’s pathetic. No meaningful weapons, no great looking armour, everything in D2 is a chore, nothing is fun to repeat over and over. The life in the game that spark that made Destiny great is gone.

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              • it would be wiser if they stop creating content for at least one season and focus on new loot instead. we have so many good activities, but there is no reason to play them. I used to play old activities even after getting all the loot from there, but I didn’t stay there for long. I felt like I‘m searching for a reason to play them again.

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                • well said. I am not that impressed with the dungeon. I think it sucks that it only has one exclusive weapon that never drops but who cares about the lame loot it drops. Bungle dropped the ball when it comes to loot. This game is boring

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                • I think the other problem is the gear, what’s the point in grinding nightfalls for exotics that I’ve had repeatedly over the years. How many exotic weapons or armour are worth grinding for? For me none, there’s also not enough of them and people are leaving exotic weapons behind for ledgendaries that they can equip decent mods. I think the whole mod system is a shit show too, why not roll every piece of armour with static intellect, discipline and strength stats and once masterworked we can use 10 points worth of mods. The super recharge for pve is so slow, if you equip an intellect mod to every piece of gear you’re only left with 5 points per slot and even then recharge is slower that year 2.

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                • You touch on the real issue with D2 as a whole with your post. The incredibly small loot pool. If there was amazing loot to be acquired in these pinnacle end game activities then that in itself would promote replay. I’ve completed the Pit 6x, Master Nightmare 3x, 100K NF-7x, and Master NF-1x. I’m not feeling the desire to rush home on Tuesday reset and form a fire team to complete any of these nowadays. For why? They’re not overly fun once the novelty of being new has worn off. The loot as you mention is mostly meh. The fact that the mod structure is tied to only specific weapons dictating what I can use is really a dumb move by Bungie. Good thing a new season is coming. Hopefully it will provide more loot! NOT reskinned or rehashed D1 loot. NEW LOOT.

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                • The only end game problem the game has is a shallow lootpool. Everything else is a side-effect of either the pool itself, or Bungie trying to make that pool seem deeper.

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                • End game is infinite power levels even tough there isn't anything worth playing that needs high power level.

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                • I disagree, and think the end game is in a good place. The end game includes the Titles which are the thing for hard core players to work towards. Enlightened was a challenge. Harbinger was fun - the end game has two layers to it. The Pinnacle rewards, and the Triumphs.

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                  • *a few posts are the same as this but I figured I’d put my 2 cents in* Most of the end game is based around leveling now and not about getting the rolls you want (mostly what the end game was for PvP players). The mod system mostly eliminates that grind and that’s find for the most part. Now the grind revolves around perfect stat rolls in stats you want. The element type sorta throws a wrench in that unfortunately.... The fact that most of the old raids have been left behind in this task of creating endgame loot giving you pinnacle loot is counter productive. They have all these raids that are being left behind (sound familiar??) they need to leave the raids at the 750 power and let us get pinnacle rewards from main encounters along with increase the stat roll drops from the old raids... I know the some encounters from old raids CAN drop high but it’s too inconsistent.

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                  • The problem with endgame is that much of the endgame content has become leveling content now. The low power level and boss health in raids has made them easy as Hell to do before anywhere close to max power. In D1, raids were a magical experience because it was something you leveled up to do, not something you did to level up. They released a week or two into a DLC, now it's in the first few days if not the first day. If you weren't within 20 levels of the cap, you got destroyed. Now you can do a raid 40 or more levels under the cap. Although it was much more of a true endgame experience in D1 it also required incentive... Which it did. Weapons and armor were unique and powerful, looked amazing and mystical, and the raid was required in order to hit max power level. Now, raid weapons and armor are just normal legendaries. The seasonal artifact allows you to level up infinitely without even completing challenging content. Most of the armor looks terrible or is reskinned. The raid exotics are on about the same level that the raid legendaries were in D1 or maybe a bit weaker. I understand why they made this change because in D1 the raid was the source of the only elemental primaries in the game, and top of that they were legendaries. Some of the special weapons (black hammer) were just simply way too strong. Black hammer was a legendary special and was too strong to even be an exotic heavy in D2. The casuals felt slighted by not being able to reach max power level without raiding (I think this is completely silly and something Bungie shouldn't have caved on. Giving us the last 10 levels I think would be a good compromise. But that's another discussion entirely). But there's absolutely a middle ground. Weapons can have unique perks that fit the theme of the raid without overtaking the sandbox. Elemental primaries are a thing now, so that wouldn't be an issue. If a weapon is too powerful, it can be made exotic (this is a solution I think Bungie has forgotten about since Age of Triumph and would solve a lot of current balancing issues without killing the power fantasy i.e. pinnacle weapons). Raid gear should 100000% never ever be reskins in any way, shape, or form. And it should look a thousand times better than it has.

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                  • 1
                    Whopping Dingers
                    Whopping Dingers

                    Your friendly below average PvP player🙂 - old

                    Raids should award curated weapons. That way if you don't get in on your first run you will have the incentive to do it again. You'll always have your garbage curated rolls for some weapons but there always 3 - 4 gems worth grinding for. Random rolls for activities like that just lowers the incentive. Random rolls works for standard legendary drops as they drop frequently, but pinnacle activities should reward pinnacle curated loot when you only have so many chances at it.

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                  • Edited by Ardour: 12/3/2019 5:40:24 AM
                    Also regrinding exitics is cheap approach. It enough for me to regrind armor and stuff every year but exotics is something else... :/ Light system is a roudiment gamedesign element. Its an illusion of the progress. If someone feels proud when he stuck useless numbers for no reason...well I dont. I hope D3 wont have that light crap.

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                    • I loved the first 3 encounters of gos Fairly easy and fun to do The final boss fight is just a mess and can go wrong without us doing anything wrong But in general it is a nice raid (if the frame rates are to be fixed)

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                    • Story missions would be nice

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                    • The problem isn't the end game. The problem is the rewards.

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