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originally posted in: Heavy in Survival is ridiculous
10/27/2019 8:03:44 PM
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No. The point of heavy ammo is incentive for teams to control a point that can turn the tide of battle. If there wasn’t heavy ammo the “meta” would be to get an early sniper pick, and camp out the rest of the round. Then we’d see a million posts about the camping in survival.
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  • Trials worked FINE!!

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  • Actually it didn't. Because that precisely how most teams played. Only they got that first pick....and then they collapsed to finish off the team. They couldn't go run and hide because revives made that a non-viable strategy. Because you'd lose your advantage. Whereas with Survival....that ONE kill can be the margin of victory if you can run out the clock.

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  • Why? I’m looking for discussion not comments. I’m fine with being proven wrong, but there has to be a valid reason.

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  • Edited by vAxist: 10/29/2019 12:02:38 PM
    Because the capture points alone were enough of a reason to make map control matter... The system in trials proved it was simply better, 1 Heavy round and the other rounds pure elim with the capture points and the timer on it. Aka depending on who you faced you would have fast matches or slow matches...in any case...not people running with heavy every second.

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  • From what I was able to watch on YouTube (see other comment below) trials of Osiris is exactly what I just said the problem would be. Both teams immediately run snipers and try to get a pick. Once someone is down try to move up and overwhelm the opponent. Most rounds were determined by one single kill. How is that skillful? Sure you can outplay your opponent, but it’s no different than getting heavy ammo. I can outplay my opponent who is using a rocket launcher. More importantly though you yourself even stated that a matches length depends on who you are facing. So it shows that camping was common to some degree. That just shows to me why heavy ammo is important. It weeds out campers because power weapons give you an advantage.

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  • It seems you havent played trials lol.....it LITERALLY kept the game alive in its weakest moments...trials had many diffrent meta's. What you just said doesnt make sense at all with all respect.

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  • I stated I never played trials and I won’t pretend I did. That being said I don’t understand how trials keeping destiny alive at its weakest moment matters to the original point of my comment/post. Which part didn’t make sense?

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  • I did play Trials....and he's right. The lack of heavy for most rounds led to a very passive, campy play style....and people complained about it constantly.

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  • Bungies point was to make rounds move quicker but there is nothing competitive about using heavy. It’s usually a one sided gunfight that eliminates most skill needed to get kills. If camping was the issue, then a form of hardpoint would be the same thing as getting heavy first except there would be no snowball effect afterwords. Trials in D1 was going fine only having heavy spawn in one round and was much more of a balanced competitive experience because of that.

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  • I fail to see either of those as a negative. Rounds should be at a faster pace, and there should be a snowball effect. Like I said to the other commenter games aren’t based on only skill. I don’t disagree heavy weapons are one sided, but that’s the point. There HAS to be incentive. What’s the incentive to a hard point? Do you just flat out win the round? Or do you gain some sort of benefit from its capture? If it is the determining factor of a round win or lose what’s the point of survival? The round would be determined by one skirmish. And if there is nothing to gain from capturing the hard point, then why even capture it? I never played trials back in destiny, so I can’t say from experience whether it was balanced or not. I will take your word for it though.

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  • Edited by TCG Maximus: 10/30/2019 4:00:55 PM
    No you don’t win the round in hardpoint like that. It moves around the map after a certain amount of time and the ones who control it the longest wins. As for the heavy though, the point I was making is that they don’t belong in a competitive environment. You will never see heavy being used in tournaments, so why would they be in the “competitive” mode? Getting heavy first does involve better team strategy but by the time you get heavy you should already have gotten kills, unless you use cheesy strays like putting a bubble/barricade upper speedily just running past it, adding to your team score. There’s no sense adding extra advantages after that. Hence why something like hardpoint would be the fairest and most competitive alternative.

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  • I did play Trials. ...and your assessment was absolutely correct.

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  • Yep, comp needs some kind of catalyst to move people into action. It doesn't necessarily need to be heavy ammo, but it needs something.

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  • Is that where your skill comes into play? The determine factor of a match should not be heavy but the skill to kill your opponents.

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  • Games aren’t based on skill alone it’s based on strategy as well. Your argument doesn’t negate what I said either. If you have the skill to beat your opponent use it at the heavy ammo’s position and win.

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  • [quote]Games aren’t based on skill alone it’s based on strategy as well.[/quote] Clip it. Ship it.

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