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Edited by Wes:
10/4/2019 11:27:39 AM
29
Hand cannons were nerfed too hard.
The hand cannon nerf was way too hard. Even with Memento Mori active, Ace has VERY steep damage dropoff starting at like 28 meters (down from 33 or so). Honestly not that bige of an issue in terms of the base range.
But then there's the steep degree of damage falloff after that point. After just a few meters, your damage is halved. Some snipers are used at that range. Low impact low range pulses are used in that range. Chaperone (with the perk) can kill at 19 meters. For Ace of Spades with Memento Mori active to only do 40 damage per crit just past that 28 meters, tripling your TTK, is ridiculous. At least make the dropoff more gradual.
Also, with MM active, the gun experiences additional dropoff earlier (25 meters instead of 28), meaning past that 28 meters, MM does actually nothing in terms of bonus damage. The bonus damage drops off entirely.
It wouldn't be that bad, but now the everyone and their mother is using a scout rifle, gameplay has already slowed down in quickplay close to Y1 levels. I for one can't stand slow game modes or slow gameplay and I play terribly during it because I can't stand just sitting in a lane all day.
I know it's only been a couple days, but I don't see that changing any time soon. I'd like there to be a happy medium between pre nerf hand cannons and post nerf. Or at the very least a more linear function representing damage falloff for hand cannons. Also, treat exotics on a case-by-case basis instesd of lumping them with blanket nerfs. Right now it's far too much and Cayde would be disappointed.
Edit: Updated to include range values for Ace.
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Yeah, it's over the top for sure. Maybe if they made all 150 and 140 2 crit 1 body it would be better; but as it stands right now you're always going to lose to a fusion, and rapid fire pulses are probably a better option because they achieve the same ttk at further ranges and are more forgiving.
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I've noticed that Thorn isn't as accurate but that might be me.
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7 Repliesbygones with kill clip is going to remain king of 6v6.
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Edited by TryN2kEEpUp: 10/3/2019 5:46:27 PMWatched my son playing pvp and I couldn't believe what they've done to Ace. NF is now like Luna's was and I think that probably means you have to be in shotgun range to use Luna's now - now BDF this is pure speculation about Luna's so take it easy on me.
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5 RepliesThe funny thing is they feel so good now. Great job on the recoil animation fix. But damn, they have no range. You have to stay within 25 meters or so. You step a meter back and your thorn shot goes from 68 to like 56. It’s ridiculous.
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2 RepliesHand cannons are worse on pc but they got better on console. You won’t find support here since most people play console and like the change.
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Bungie still hasn’t figured out that pc and console are different any nerf effects them differently
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5 RepliesHandcannons shouldn’t have scout rifle range glad they got nerfed
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I know, its almost as if bungie doesn't want handcannons to succeed beyond their intended range.
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Nah. They feel nicer than ever. Sure the range drop off stings a bit but they outclassed too much. I was even using Warden’s Law last night and it felt good.
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Suggest using Thorn because of its fair range stat and of course DoT that stops regen or a long range 140 such as Austringer. The best rpms affected from the animation fix is definitely 140s I feel like, drfinitely the closes we have been to D1 handcannons.
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I agree. As a pve player they feel neutered. Pulses are far better and more versatile now and recluse feels even better now (comparatively-it’s obviously worse than before) I used to run MC religiously but the damage nerf to red bars, the rampage nerf, and the range nerf- it’s a bit overkill imo.
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2 RepliesGood riddance
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From what I played of Crucible tonight, it seems like Bungie did a great job.
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Honestly there is no reason that a Legendary should out perform an exotic. Ace should have gotten its range reduced less. But Im not gonna lie I have pooped on more NFs in one day with Ace and Thorn than with a pulse or scout. Hand Cannons will be the meta now and always and what I will continue to use. But i guess we have to play in a new version of D2 Y1 PvP.
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5 RepliesMan sunshot is very useful now these days.
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4 RepliesInteresting how you got down voted by so many people either way range nerf certain if not a hand full of handcannons can compete with a sniper or scout and i felt it hard in mid range might’ve been me farmingso much i started to play bad or the handcannons because i was doing way better with monte carlo
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1 ReplyYep HCs feel awful. Well dad setup now with bygones feeling stickier than ever.
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4 RepliesTbh I don’t really mind the nerf
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10 RepliesEdited by DuBChiri2: 10/4/2019 1:54:59 AMI think handcannons should not have range that can exceed 27 meters in most cases. Crimson, max range austringer with range finder, 110s, those can hit around 27 meters but everything else should be less than 25. 150s should have around a 22 to 24 range. 140s should have a 24 to 27 range. 180s should have a 23 to 25 range (this is only because of their crappy ttk). 110s should have 26-29 meters of range. The reason I think this way is because they have been suppressing auto rifles. It's already common that handcannons are better at pretty much everything else, but in no shape or form should a pistol in normal circumstances hit at the same range as a rifle. I have a hazard of the cast with full bore and a range masterwork and it's fall off starts at 31 meters, pretty good right? Most 450s can only hit at around 27 unless you only focus on the range stat. Ace of spades ACTUALLY hits at 28 meters, to which then fall off applies. The 20-25 meters you stated is incorrect meaning ace only really lost about 2-2.5 if my estimate of its previous range is correct. You can test this yourself using darci and the tribute hall. My spare rations with hammer forged, ricochet, range finder, and range masterwork hits at 29 meters. That's only 2 meters less than a near max range auto rifle but it's down from 36 meters due to both ricochet and the range nerf happening, which is really only a total of around 3 meters lost due to a natural nerf.
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4 Repliesenjoy the new meta, pulse rifles an slow poke scouts isnt this what the comunity asked for? [u][b]gamer dads rejoice[/b]....ur time has come u can now safely stay in the back with your ZERO reflexes , camp ad think you are good...[/u]
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They're meant to be short range weapons. Surprisingly enough, they still work well cause every map is desinged for HC/Shotgun, shocker.
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2 RepliesThey weren't nerfed enough, HC's were the 2nd biggest cancer in this games PVP. The fact that they could compete at Pulse/Auto range is thee stupidest thing I've "EVER" witnessed in FPS.
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Yeah lol they literally have like no range now...
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14 RepliesNo, it's fine lol Nice to met be getting HC spammed in Crucible :)
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10 RepliesHandcannons are fine they just play in their perspective ranges now. The only handcannon I and most have noticed that was hit unintended was crimson which was supposed to get a buff but the effective range nerf was not factored in when tweaking crimson. It just needs to go back to being red death and a pulse rifle because it is worse than it was before the buff.
