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originally posted in: Director's Cut: Part II
8/15/2019 6:24:19 PM
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What counts as a "pinnical activity" moving forward? Cause if the best mods are tied to running raids.. this will end badly for everyone.
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  • This is a concern of mine as well.

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  • Trials and heroic raids were true pinnacle activities, and Bungie removed them. These days IB is considered pinnacle. SMH

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  • Some of the best weapons in D1 were tied strictly to raids. Vex Mythoclast and Fatebringer come to mind. In a mmo style game the best gear should come from the high end encounters. Should definitely be a distinction for the players that take time to complete the raids and those that don’t

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  • The only thing I don't get is why people think this is okay in PvE but not in PvP.

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  • Because it was never much of a problem in PvP in D1. The only time was Vex being just busted. After vex got fixed there were strong weapons from the raids but you could compete and even find better weapons for PvP specifically. D2? Tell me the last time a raid weapon was considered strong in PvP.

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  • Ummm. Guess you got a point there. 1k voices is pretty strong but so is every other heavy that is used more than that so...

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  • Yeah, 1k is only really top tier in gambit, but I think that is on console. PC, the meta is Hammerhead as you can instant snipe someone with that thing from across the map. Tarrabah? Whats that? Anarchy? Completely a PvE weapon that was a joke for the longest time. Still kinda is but requires the most skill out of all weapons to use it properly for high boss damage. Acrius? Okay well that was Y1 for a little while until we got sleeper but that was an issue with the entire weapon system.

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  • Can't lie. You are 100% right.

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  • I don't think it will be an issue if enhanced mods are random drops. If they tie specific ones to an activity like enhanced hand cannon loader to just the raid, then yes this might become an issue to a lot of hand cannon players that don't raid.

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  • Probably Raids, Iron Banner, the new Dungeon(?)/Moon armor (Dreaming City armor could have enhanced perks, maybe Moon will too?).

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  • I mean... that's what every game has been doing besides Destiny for years to get players to try raiding. Do you really need to be max gear for you to run nightfall or strikes? No you don't. Finally giving a reason back to raid helps alot. Cause right now no one needs to raid anymore, which makes it a useless activity to do. People will get over it, everyone does eventually.

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  • If Bungie cared that much about raids they would have built in a way to find raids groups into the game 5 years ago instead of relying on third party lfg sites

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  • Raid matchmaking was never a good idea and will never be one. Please describe me how you do shuro chi with a random group without any communication? Same thing can be done with every other raid encounter. Ingame matchmaking always has the high risk of no communication. External doesn't have this problem. To avoid these problems, raidencounters have to be watered down which is a step in the wrong direction.

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  • The only way raids can be made matchmaking is if the normal mode doesn't require communication to complete and hard mode does... but they took away hard mode so.....

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  • Since we had a normal and prestige leviathan and we don't had matchmaking for those aswell. We have this discussion since destiny 1 started with vault of glass. And since then, the answer always was the same. Raids should be the pinnacle of pve, requiring skill and team play to beat. Emphasizing team play here. 6 strangers doing something is not team play. If I see the average mm random in strikes, I don't wanna see a raid mechanic dumbed down for this Niveau. Matchmaking also would bring in random afk people which you are not able to kick. Since it would be matchmade, you are not guaranteed to be fireteam leader. There are so many problems with raid matchmaking, iam not even starting. Don't get me wrong. I don't say the people itself are the problem. The expectation of content guidance, that comes from the concept of matchmaking is killing the idea. You need a certain commitment like following instructions and simply being in voice to work in a raid. On pc nobody really uses the voicechat in addition. TeamSpeak and discord are the go to points. Matchmaking doesn't check if you have these programs or are willing to use it. Easy checks will be ignored and just ticked to be able to go to queue. Not everybody has and wants a microphone. How will matchmaking react to a leaver after the first encounter? Is a random guy, who doesn't have made the first encounter put into your group? So he misses this encounters loot drop, without consenting to it. Otherwise you could wait for days in queue to find someone at the encounter you're on. All those points are a big red flag for raid mm and bungie does good to not even try it. It wastes resources for a fail that is set in stone.

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  • I didn’t say raid matchmaking but we can’t say if it’s bad since it’s never been tried

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  • And it’s the best content by a mile

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  • It is usually, but its not for everyone. People just need to start getting over it. The problem is alot of console players have 0 experience in MMOs so this is all foriegn to them and it makes 'no sense' while you pull over some MMO player and they are like "yeah this is all no sh** stuff they figured out over a decade ago"

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  • Maybe people are also upset because I’m pretty sure this game was originally marketed as a looter shooter? Maybe people are upset because they bought a looter shooter and they’re now watching the game be turned into a mmo (something they didn’t want)?

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  • Destiny was always kinda an MMO even in D1 once you hit end game. Reviewers/interviewers always asked if Destiny was an MMO specifically because of how Bungie described the systems in place. Bungie side stepped it for along time because during the time D1 released MMOs were on the decline. WoW had a 'meh' release. ESO was in beta not looking good, and FFXIV was at the end of being shut down and currently being redone for A Realm Reborn. Now? MMOs besides WoW are being praised and on the rise again. FFXIV is breathing down WoWs neck with alot of "WoW refugees" coming in fresh off of what is considered the best MMO expansion released this decade, ESO recovered and is doing well, Runescape Classic is back and getting content, and Guild Wars 2 is showing strong numbers again. Destiny was always a psuedo-MMO. Weekly lockouts? MMO. Instanced activities? That's MMO. Etc, etc, etc.

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  • The problem with forcing people to try raids is the toxic elitist players. No one helps anyone learn the raids and everyone gets pissy because one guy doing the raid cant handle the failure of wiping so they leave.

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  • There are enough lfg possibilities and a lot of people run sherpas, aka help new players. If you think just elitists play raids and nobody cares for newcomers, you prove you didn't even try to dive into the subject

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  • If it’s not true that no one cares for newcomers when it comes to raids, then why is KWTD one of the most popular phrases? I just checked and I didn’t even get to three requests before I saw KWTD, and after that it was what just about every request had in common.

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  • Edited by Scaleoj1: 8/16/2019 9:58:48 PM
    pretty easy and i mentioned it before As an average player you wanna have fast raid runs. I think thats pretty normal. The community expects of you, to be proactive. If you open an LFG and say, you wanna learn and look for a sherpa, someone will contact you. Sometimes its a normal player that just cant find a raidgroup for its server region, sometimes its someone who wants to help. Often when i look for raids, i post them as sherpas (not always though) and the group fills very fast with newcomers eager to play. So from my pov, its just a thing of perception. Most people wanna do it fast, but would help if they get asked. Edit: For reference i use the Fireteam search from bungie and an discord LFG for PC groups.

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  • Right, except I would say that KWTD proves my point. I would say this because while there may be some sherpas, there’s even more KWTD people. While it is acceptable to want fast raid runs, it can be rather intimidating to new comers to raiding as I can imagine that KWTD for some people is just watch a video on it, but for others they mean you need to have already completed the raid. If new comers keep getting the second type of aforementioned people, then they will likely be steered away from raiding as I’m sure being kicked from the team for saying this is your first time raiding will leave a bad taste in many peoples mouths.

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